Posted by jason noon on December 17, 2009 at 3:36pm
A bit of help you brits. I've been building a while now. Like to think im fairly good. But i dont know what my time is worth. I got lots of people wanting builds done. I dont know what to charge. There too personal just to sell of cheap. And apart from a drill, i do everything by hand. so its not like its quick either.
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It was an example. If we had a group or a seperate forum page where we could give our opinion on what we would be willing to pay (assuming we were in the market to buy) for a particular CBG that was posted. Then the builder would have immediate feed back on what the market would bare. So assuming you were in the market and based on the picture alone what would you be willing to pay for that CBG above?
Mark aka. Junk Box Instruments said:
Tracy Kennedy said:
What would you be willing to pay for this CBG?
Difficult for me to say because I'm not in the market to buy a CBG, but if I was I reckon I'd want to know what it sounds like.
I agree. We need a forum page where as we could post a pic of our build we intend to sell. set it up like say and opinion poll. As such post a short description and pic and just let everyone throw out what they feel it could be worth. That alone could give a basic price point for that particular CBG. Here's and example of one I just finished. I call this CBG "NUI MANO" (Big Shark) 25.5 Scale 4 string Poplar neck with heel, neck through design Oak finger board, fretted with Gitty's medium wire acrylic nut Oak and allthread bridge, saddle Custom Tribal Shark soundhole Shoehorn tailpiece Custom rustic box measures approx 10.25"X 13.5"X 2.5" Danaish oil finish double piezo pick ups
I totally agree with roosterman and if id have read what you guys had to say on selling before id listed my cbg on ebay i think i would have set my sights higher.I started the bidding quite low to try to attract people to bid but obviously would like more .i Take alot of time and pride in my builds and dont want to undersell myself or you guys.I think we should start a cbg section on selling/where to sell and pricing it would be a great help and give people confidence when selling.
Roosterman said:
I know I have already but my 2p worth (or 2 cents!) in on this discussion, but lately folk seem to be giving stuff away. Selling for the cost of the parts helps no-one. Sure its fun to build, but if you make a little profit, you can build more, and with better parts! I have totally stopped selling on Ebay now due to too many folk giving away their guitars and cheapening the hobby as a whole.
£40 for a cbg that takes a week to build (if built properly)??? No thanks.
Isnt it about time we addressed the issue, and started a new trend? Let US, the builders, set the price, not the Ebay-bargain-hunting-chancers!
If you go to get doubleglazing, or a new car, or a bag of chips, they do not ask you how much you want to pay. They tell you how much the price is, based on cost, PLUS A PROFIT, so that they can eat and carry on doing the job!!
'£20 for this guitar sir? Sure, its worth £120, took me a week to build, hell the parts cost more, but why not.'
Doesnt need a business degree to figure that pretty soon everyone will have a £20 cbg and the market will be dead...
I know guys who sell their cbgs for £100, I know others who get £1000 - there is a market for them all.
Lets not kill this hobby before its really started.
Much as it would be nice, as a builder, to be able to set prices and have people pay them, I don't think that's the way it'll pan out. It comes down to cold hard market economics and that can be pretty harsh sometimes (and I say that as someone who is certainly not a right-wing free market conservative nutter). Assuming you didn't fall foul of any anti-monopoly laws then I guess you could try forming a cartel of all CBG builders to set minimum prices, but with an individualistic thing like guitar building I don't see that ever working.
My personal approach is that there's simply no point in selling things for a price that values my time at a few pence an hour. Now, there may be fools out there who will pay up to £1,000 for a CBG but (a) I haven't encountered them and (b) I'm not sure I feel comfortable encouraging that kind of thing because it seems contrary to the principles that attracted me to CBGs in the first place. If I was selling for £120 I wouldn't be making realistic money because I have fairly basic facilities and it takes me quite a lot of hours to build a guitar (and simple self-respect says I try not to build rubbish). As an aside, it horrifies me to see the prices of regular guitars that are presumably imported from China and other far eastern locations - simple arithmetic says that, even with the economies of scale you get in factories, the labour rates must be miniscule...and if anyone in a Chinese special trade zone latches onto CBGs you can bet we'll see with nicely made instruments at very low prices indeed.
If there are people here who are really determined to try building CBGs commercially then the first thing they should do is build one and time how many hours it takes - and be honest, include all the setting up and clearing up time and add in a bit of time for how long you'd be messing around on eBay trying to sell it. Then take all those hours and multiply by the UK minimum wage of £5.80 an hour. Add on the cost of all the parts you've had to buy (or if they're scavanged junk then add a bit for the time it took you to find them). The resulting sum is the absolute minimum price that makes sense. Frankly, if you're a skilled builder, you should probably show a bit of self respect and set an hourly rate of rather more than minimum.
Family and neighbours keep asking me why I don't try to make a go of it as a business but I just don't think there's that much of a market out there if people are looking to pay £20 or £40 for an instrument. I've concluded that, for me, this has to be a hobby and an artistic pursuit. I'll build instruments as presents for friends who I think will enjoy and benefit from them, but I have no illusions about this as a commercial activity.
I'm not suggesting there's no market at all. I'm sure there are people out there who would like to play a CBG but can't build one and are willing to pay a sensible price based on the cost of production. And that small band of buyers will eventually figure out there are a few builders who produce products of genuine high quality. But positioning yourself into that market is a precarious endeavour.
Roosterman said:
Selling for the cost of the parts helps no-one. Sure its fun to build, but if you make a little profit, you can build more, and with better parts! I have totally stopped selling on Ebay now due to too many folk giving away their guitars and cheapening the hobby as a whole. £40 for a cbg that takes a week to build (if built properly)??? No thanks.
Isnt it about time we addressed the issue, and started a new trend? Let US, the builders, set the price, not the Ebay-bargain-hunting-chancers!
If you go to get doubleglazing, or a new car, or a bag of chips, they do not ask you how much you want to pay. They tell you how much the price is, based on cost, PLUS A PROFIT, so that they can eat and carry on doing the job!!
'£20 for this guitar sir? Sure, its worth £120, took me a week to build, hell the parts cost more, but why not.'
Doesnt need a business degree to figure that pretty soon everyone will have a £20 cbg and the market will be dead...
I know guys who sell their cbgs for £100, I know others who get £1000 - there is a market for them all.
Lets not kill this hobby before its really started.
I know I have already but my 2p worth (or 2 cents!) in on this discussion, but lately folk seem to be giving stuff away.
Selling for the cost of the parts helps no-one. Sure its fun to build, but if you make a little profit, you can build more, and with better parts!
I have totally stopped selling on Ebay now due to too many folk giving away their guitars and cheapening the hobby as a whole.
£40 for a cbg that takes a week to build (if built properly)??? No thanks.
Isnt it about time we addressed the issue, and started a new trend? Let US, the builders, set the price, not the Ebay-bargain-hunting-chancers!
If you go to get doubleglazing, or a new car, or a bag of chips, they do not ask you how much you want to pay. They tell you how much the price is, based on cost, PLUS A PROFIT, so that they can eat and carry on doing the job!!
'£20 for this guitar sir? Sure, its worth £120, took me a week to build, hell the parts cost more, but why not.'
Doesnt need a business degree to figure that pretty soon everyone will have a £20 cbg and the market will be dead...
I know guys who sell their cbgs for £100, I know others who get £1000 - there is a market for them all.
Lets not kill this hobby before its really started.
Excellent question .I'm currently Trying to sell my first Diddley Bow on ebay and was exactly the same as you .Ive made quite a few cbg's for friends and family and basically just covered the cost of parts.Ebay wont let you set a reserve of less than £50 and since i have no reputation or feedback on there about my guitars i didn't want to start too high and scare people off so i started the bidding off at £30 which will cover the cost of parts,hopefully it will go for more than that and give me an idea how much to sell the next one for, but at least ill get some feedback as id like to make more.Ill let you know how it goes.
all of you have wise words. it is a tricky one. I normally have to be persuaded quite well to even part with a guitar. I'm not in for the long ride. Its more of a hobby/art thing. That occasionally pays for a tattoo addiction.
I tried a couple of times on Ebay. I wasn't prepared to let them go for peanuts but it's hard to know where to pitch the price. I tried starting them around £40-50 which was hardly worth the effort. Lots of watchers but no bids. I gave up on that avenue. I see there have been a few on lately that sold for reasonable prices. I sell my simple fretless 3 stringers for £75 + p&p and I am quite happy with that even though I'm working for minimum pay. You ave to decide your own comfort zone.
Roosterman Ben and myself have had some lengthy discussions on this point...I've bought and sold, traded, made & repaired guitars for several years now..and it does provide a substantial handy (& declared) income..some months my guitar income is better than my day job. I have always enjoyed dabbling with guitars, but these days I'm reckon I've become pretty business savvy about it. Setting the price is really tough... it's a tricky balance between what the market will stand and giving away your time.
To get a decent hourly return you need to be really geared up for it, so it means knowing what will sell and for how much, having parts and materials in stock, the right tools for the job...and hard work! For example, this week I've punted out 8 cigar box guitars, yesterday I made 2 simple CBGs from scratch, finished one this a.m. and I'm working on 3 other customer-order resonator guitars. It's pretty intense work, and that's one of the reasons I hate to see stuff virtually being given away on eBay by some "Johnny-come-latelys". I know I'm probably quite different from the majority of hobby builders in terms of the amount of stuff I'm putting out...but I believe I'm not ripping people off nor jumping on the bandwagon.
Replies
Mark aka. Junk Box Instruments said:
Difficult for me to say because I'm not in the market to buy a CBG, but if I was I reckon I'd want to know what it sounds like.
What would you be willing to pay for this CBG?Roosterman said:
My personal approach is that there's simply no point in selling things for a price that values my time at a few pence an hour. Now, there may be fools out there who will pay up to £1,000 for a CBG but (a) I haven't encountered them and (b) I'm not sure I feel comfortable encouraging that kind of thing because it seems contrary to the principles that attracted me to CBGs in the first place. If I was selling for £120 I wouldn't be making realistic money because I have fairly basic facilities and it takes me quite a lot of hours to build a guitar (and simple self-respect says I try not to build rubbish). As an aside, it horrifies me to see the prices of regular guitars that are presumably imported from China and other far eastern locations - simple arithmetic says that, even with the economies of scale you get in factories, the labour rates must be miniscule...and if anyone in a Chinese special trade zone latches onto CBGs you can bet we'll see with nicely made instruments at very low prices indeed.
If there are people here who are really determined to try building CBGs commercially then the first thing they should do is build one and time how many hours it takes - and be honest, include all the setting up and clearing up time and add in a bit of time for how long you'd be messing around on eBay trying to sell it. Then take all those hours and multiply by the UK minimum wage of £5.80 an hour. Add on the cost of all the parts you've had to buy (or if they're scavanged junk then add a bit for the time it took you to find them). The resulting sum is the absolute minimum price that makes sense. Frankly, if you're a skilled builder, you should probably show a bit of self respect and set an hourly rate of rather more than minimum.
Family and neighbours keep asking me why I don't try to make a go of it as a business but I just don't think there's that much of a market out there if people are looking to pay £20 or £40 for an instrument. I've concluded that, for me, this has to be a hobby and an artistic pursuit. I'll build instruments as presents for friends who I think will enjoy and benefit from them, but I have no illusions about this as a commercial activity.
I'm not suggesting there's no market at all. I'm sure there are people out there who would like to play a CBG but can't build one and are willing to pay a sensible price based on the cost of production. And that small band of buyers will eventually figure out there are a few builders who produce products of genuine high quality. But positioning yourself into that market is a precarious endeavour.
Roosterman said:
Selling for the cost of the parts helps no-one. Sure its fun to build, but if you make a little profit, you can build more, and with better parts!
I have totally stopped selling on Ebay now due to too many folk giving away their guitars and cheapening the hobby as a whole.
£40 for a cbg that takes a week to build (if built properly)??? No thanks.
Isnt it about time we addressed the issue, and started a new trend? Let US, the builders, set the price, not the Ebay-bargain-hunting-chancers!
If you go to get doubleglazing, or a new car, or a bag of chips, they do not ask you how much you want to pay. They tell you how much the price is, based on cost, PLUS A PROFIT, so that they can eat and carry on doing the job!!
'£20 for this guitar sir? Sure, its worth £120, took me a week to build, hell the parts cost more, but why not.'
Doesnt need a business degree to figure that pretty soon everyone will have a £20 cbg and the market will be dead...
I know guys who sell their cbgs for £100, I know others who get £1000 - there is a market for them all.
Lets not kill this hobby before its really started.
To get a decent hourly return you need to be really geared up for it, so it means knowing what will sell and for how much, having parts and materials in stock, the right tools for the job...and hard work! For example, this week I've punted out 8 cigar box guitars, yesterday I made 2 simple CBGs from scratch, finished one this a.m. and I'm working on 3 other customer-order resonator guitars. It's pretty intense work, and that's one of the reasons I hate to see stuff virtually being given away on eBay by some "Johnny-come-latelys". I know I'm probably quite different from the majority of hobby builders in terms of the amount of stuff I'm putting out...but I believe I'm not ripping people off nor jumping on the bandwagon.
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