I hope this will be a way of kicking off some discussion about how our instruments relate to our musical tastes and ideas. One of the things I've been thinking about a lot since the Birmingham festival is how the cigar box guitar movement might relate to or imapct upon the broader music scene. For obvious reasons the event at the Crossroads Club had a very strong blues theme - which I enjoyed and which I'm not criticising - however it strikes me that it would be a mistake to think CBGs are confined to blues music. Of course people are already playing stuff on CBGs that goes well beyond the boundaries of traditional blues - from full-on rock at the crunchy end of things to jazz and folk at the less distorted or more acoustic end. But if we're really going to think of ourselves as a movement then we should think about whether we can make an impact beyond the niches where we currently exist.
I started thinking about whether CBG music could be a genre in itself. We could certainly talk about music played on CBGs as "CBG music", but I don't think that would get us very far and I think there's a risk that labels can become confining. Many of us here build instruments that don't employ cigar boxes. It seems to me the basis of this movement is an ethos that's expressed through experimentation, self-building, improvisation and re-cycling. I'd like to think it's also about open mindedness and about cross-fertlisation of ideas. So maybe that's what CBG music could be about.
Just to let people know where I'm coming from in terms of my personal musical tastes, I thought I'd mention a few bands and players I listen to or admire. I grew up in the punk era of the 1970s and I still have a fondness for things I first encountered then - from punk precursors such as The Stooges and various "pub rock" groups to the arty minimalism of Suicide or Wire. I think one of the reasons I enjoy certain contemporary acts (thinking here of White Stripes, Ting Tings and our very own Hollowbelly) is they embody aspects of what I loved about punk. Following punk, I went to university in London where my eyes were opened to the incredible diversity of the musical world. I got into noise/dissonance music such as Sonic Youth and Jesus And Mary Chain and simultaneously I began listening to early blues recordings. I also, for some odd reason, became a big Hawkwind fan - which led, later in life, to an interest in analoge synths and primitive electronic music. Later on still, I met a friend who got me interested in "experimental music" and persuaded me to go to events organised by the London Musicians Collective. Later still, other friends got me interested in what was then called "world music" and also in stuff that might be described as ambient.
The bottom line is that I'm now seen by my friends as a nut who listens to all kinds of weird stuff. I used to tell people I wanted record shops to have a "difficult listening" section to counteract the easy listening one. If ever pressed to put a name to what I most like listening to, I often resort to stealing the description "soundtracks for non-existent films" (I think it was used by Barry Adamson for some of his solo work). It's kind of a catch-all phrase because film soundtracks can include pretty much any sort of music, but it does suggest a certain amount of atmospheric material (eg. Ry Cooder's theme for Paris Texas, which I love profoundly). If I get around to recording my own material then I hope I can avoid crudely emulating the work of others, but if I did have to model my work on an existing group then perhaps the one I'd choose right now would be Godspeed You Black Emperor! Check out their album "F# A# Infinity" for an epic form to which CBGs might be suited.
So that's where I'm coming from. The thing that attracts me to this place is the experimentalism and the cheap and cheerful DIY ethic. I think its good that we might help people reject the idea that in order to make "good" music you have to buy expensive equipment and learn to emulate established musicians note-for-note. I also hope we can develop music that is distinctively British - not because I don't like American music (I have a deep love of many sounds from across the Atlantic) but because it's important to create something that is truly your own.
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I agree just play what you wanna play and build what you wanna build - no rules means no rules ! - i thank you all for your very kind words about my builds - this is my outlook on it i spend lots of time building because thats the only way i can be creative as i'm a crap player , if i was a better player like you guys maybe i would spend less time building and more time playing - i'd swap been a builder for a player anyday , as a player i could just go out and buy a guitar but as a builder i just put all the effort i can into the build which is my substitute for been crap at playing !- thats my take on it anyway
juju.
what is cbg music? anything you want it to be was the first thing that popped into my head.The 'there are no rules' idea that we like to apply to building cbgs should apply to the music created on them also.Thrash metal on cbgs anyone?..
The Brits have always appropriated American ideas and put their own unique spin on them- the Pistols were in the audience when the Ramones came over from New York in the 70's/house music came over from Detroit and we twisted it into acid house in the 80's/ all this is a beautiful thing in my opinion.
American culture is all pervasive and worldwide-I wear converse allstars,levis,t shirts,baseball caps- and so does the rest of the planet! nowt wrong with that.However,from a personal perspective, putting a British twist on things is important to me -if I sing about a river its the Mersey not the Mississippi, I dont sing about crossroads I've never visited,milking cows I've never owned, or little red roosters I haven't lost.I think its important to sing your own song,share your own pain, mash up genres according to taste and maybe even move them forward a little.If you ever find me singing 'sweet home chicago' put a gun to my head and pull the trigger (just make sure its a Yank gun cos they're bound to look cooler than ours) lol!
I believe that people attend gigs to see your soul.when you perform you metaphorically take your clothes off.The more you reveal of your self the more they like it.Iggy Pop used to slash himself with glass onstage-not recommended but totally understandable-its like saying "here is my pain" "how much would you like to see?I'LL GIVE YOU EVERYTHING!" Whatever music gets played on cbgs, I'd like the person to mean it.Sing about your loneliness so I can recognise myself in it and feel less alone.Sing about your love so I can rejoice in mine.Sing about your triumphs over adversity so I know that I might triumph also .Show me your self.
Here's my slant on it. I love the Blues and it is at the roots of most rock and popular music of the last 50 years or so. I like it's simple and straight forward approach. It is music that comes from the heart and as an (aspiring) guitarist, I find it suits my style, that's how I like to play. It also gets my juices flowing. For me, playing is therapeutic and an expression of how I'm feeling. I'm also not stuck in a blues rut by any means. I like to listen to many styles of music but from a playing aspect, it does it every time for me.
The cbg ethos sits nicely with the blues, simple and easy. So my style of guitar building will remain fairly basic and simple. I love JuJu's guitars, they are beautiful and embody pure craftsmanship but I don't have that skill or patience to build at that level. I really like the low-fi ethos that cbgs embody but to sum up what it means for me is that it embraces all of the creative interests I have. I love making things, woodworking, engineering, electronics. I love music and playing guitars so I get a new toy to play with every few weeks. I love photography and writing about things that interest me so it gives me a good subject for blogging etc.
Coming back to Mark's topic, I think the cbg is essentially a roots music instrument (folk/blues) and I guess punk fits into that genre too but there's no reason that it shouldn't progress into many other styles. Having said that, there's "horses for courses" and some instruments are better for certain types of music. But also remember the cbg motto "there are no rules"
No, I agree with you on that. I had promised to put a video up of my first build, and I've spent the last week or so trying to come up with something that I can play on a fretless three stringer that doesn't sound like blues. Of course that is half the fun, and the cool thing is that it will mix into something else all together, if I ever get there.
I've got to work out how to make a cigar box super chorus and delay pedal first, mind you so it might take a wee while..
Good points well stated. I guess the common factor that brings us together here is the instruments - and if the community continues to be about design and construction then that's fine. But I think it would be sad if the only substantial opportunities for people to meet up and play or hear instruments were to be based only on one particular musical style (ie. blues). I'll make clear again that I'm not anti-blues - I love it - but I hope for new and interesting settings in which to hear CBGs. I guess the responsibility then falls on me and others like me to make things happen.
I should add that I too have been inspired by JuJu's work and I'm giving a lot of thought to how it should influence what I do next. As with all things creative, I'm anxious not to end up merely copying other people's work.
Well said, and I think a very interesting point or three. My own musical tastes include lots of styles - blues it is true, but equally My Bloody Valentine, Galaxie 500, Julian Cope, U2 and believe it or not, Godspeed and all their other incarnations (a name I never thought I'd see checked here, I must admit).
I guess the key is whether we see the CBG as a different instrument to a guitar (nobody says that a Strat can only play one type of music, and that is only a brand within a type) or whether we are all here because we can do something a little different and entirely on our own terms. Is it because of the instrument, or is that just a mean to an ends?
Again, for me, it is the idea that I can build what I want, how I want and not be tied to building something that is a 'S type' or a 'T type'. My preference is to build something good for as near to free as possible, but equally stretch things in a new direction. See what I'm capable off, even if in the past I'd figured that that wasn't too much, if I'm being totally honest.
Just among the UK builders, Juju's guitars have really caught my eye (as an example, there are many others too) Just have another look at his designs and put it into the context of your local music shop. When was the last time you saw something as imaginitive and beautifully designed as that sat next to the chinese strats and korean teles? Think about it and I really believe that the answer is only ever going to be 'never'.
And that is why the 'nation' is a bit special. That is Juju's 8th build and he is coming up with stuff like that. I've just finished my first, a 'standard' 3 stringer, if there is such a thing, but already I'm looking at his and thinking about what I'd really like to be building, and not thinking 'fixed neck LP shape nice bit of wood' but instead realising that there are no limits, and that the answer is 'whatever I like'.
Its inspiring and most of all it is DIY, and if we're looking for an ethic or an identity for it, my gut feeling is that it isn't about the music we play, instead it is all about the attitude. It's a new kind of punk without a couple of middle class cockneys flogging black bags as designer clothes and telling you how to do it. And best of all it is exactly what you want it to be.
Replies
juju.
The Brits have always appropriated American ideas and put their own unique spin on them- the Pistols were in the audience when the Ramones came over from New York in the 70's/house music came over from Detroit and we twisted it into acid house in the 80's/ all this is a beautiful thing in my opinion.
American culture is all pervasive and worldwide-I wear converse allstars,levis,t shirts,baseball caps- and so does the rest of the planet! nowt wrong with that.However,from a personal perspective, putting a British twist on things is important to me -if I sing about a river its the Mersey not the Mississippi, I dont sing about crossroads I've never visited,milking cows I've never owned, or little red roosters I haven't lost.I think its important to sing your own song,share your own pain, mash up genres according to taste and maybe even move them forward a little.If you ever find me singing 'sweet home chicago' put a gun to my head and pull the trigger (just make sure its a Yank gun cos they're bound to look cooler than ours) lol!
I believe that people attend gigs to see your soul.when you perform you metaphorically take your clothes off.The more you reveal of your self the more they like it.Iggy Pop used to slash himself with glass onstage-not recommended but totally understandable-its like saying "here is my pain" "how much would you like to see?I'LL GIVE YOU EVERYTHING!" Whatever music gets played on cbgs, I'd like the person to mean it.Sing about your loneliness so I can recognise myself in it and feel less alone.Sing about your love so I can rejoice in mine.Sing about your triumphs over adversity so I know that I might triumph also .Show me your self.
The cbg ethos sits nicely with the blues, simple and easy. So my style of guitar building will remain fairly basic and simple. I love JuJu's guitars, they are beautiful and embody pure craftsmanship but I don't have that skill or patience to build at that level. I really like the low-fi ethos that cbgs embody but to sum up what it means for me is that it embraces all of the creative interests I have. I love making things, woodworking, engineering, electronics. I love music and playing guitars so I get a new toy to play with every few weeks. I love photography and writing about things that interest me so it gives me a good subject for blogging etc.
Coming back to Mark's topic, I think the cbg is essentially a roots music instrument (folk/blues) and I guess punk fits into that genre too but there's no reason that it shouldn't progress into many other styles. Having said that, there's "horses for courses" and some instruments are better for certain types of music. But also remember the cbg motto "there are no rules"
I've got to work out how to make a cigar box super chorus and delay pedal first, mind you so it might take a wee while..
I should add that I too have been inspired by JuJu's work and I'm giving a lot of thought to how it should influence what I do next. As with all things creative, I'm anxious not to end up merely copying other people's work.
I guess the key is whether we see the CBG as a different instrument to a guitar (nobody says that a Strat can only play one type of music, and that is only a brand within a type) or whether we are all here because we can do something a little different and entirely on our own terms. Is it because of the instrument, or is that just a mean to an ends?
Again, for me, it is the idea that I can build what I want, how I want and not be tied to building something that is a 'S type' or a 'T type'. My preference is to build something good for as near to free as possible, but equally stretch things in a new direction. See what I'm capable off, even if in the past I'd figured that that wasn't too much, if I'm being totally honest.
Just among the UK builders, Juju's guitars have really caught my eye (as an example, there are many others too) Just have another look at his designs and put it into the context of your local music shop. When was the last time you saw something as imaginitive and beautifully designed as that sat next to the chinese strats and korean teles? Think about it and I really believe that the answer is only ever going to be 'never'.
And that is why the 'nation' is a bit special. That is Juju's 8th build and he is coming up with stuff like that. I've just finished my first, a 'standard' 3 stringer, if there is such a thing, but already I'm looking at his and thinking about what I'd really like to be building, and not thinking 'fixed neck LP shape nice bit of wood' but instead realising that there are no limits, and that the answer is 'whatever I like'.
Its inspiring and most of all it is DIY, and if we're looking for an ethic or an identity for it, my gut feeling is that it isn't about the music we play, instead it is all about the attitude. It's a new kind of punk without a couple of middle class cockneys flogging black bags as designer clothes and telling you how to do it. And best of all it is exactly what you want it to be.