I have been assembling materials and a few proper tools and am about ready to begin my second build.

 

I learned alot from my first build (literally a science experiment with my daughter) and am excited about building a proper CBG this time around. I have taken the advice given to me by some of the more experienced builders and will take my time with this one.

As a first step, I have tried to more carefully plan and think some thing through before starting to cut wood. I have even gone as far as drawing up a diagram of my plan. I have posted it here for your consideration. I would love to hear your opinions on it.

And before any other noobs take this diagram and start to build from it, go look at my pics of my CBG#1 and consider the source. I am not exactly a master builder (yet). Look for updates on this build under my profile in the album "Bama Jelley CBG#2 - Build Progress".

 

 

 

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Looks like a good plan to me. It's certainly a lot more planning than I've ever done. And looking at the pictures of #1, it looks like you're pretty careful with your work, so I think you'll have a nice instrument on your hands.

Most of my projects focus on some new area of interest, such as the head stock design, the sound box design, etc. So, when I do project drawings they are never so all-encompassing. I think its a smart move to take the time to draw it out so you get most of the questions answered before you start out and so you only need to focus on the new questions that inevitably arise in a new build. Your plans look fine to me as well. There are so many different ways you can make a CBG, so I'm sure we'll be seeing more builds from you. Just let us see the results and don't be afraid to ask "silly" or not so silly questions. There are lots of newbies here who can benefit by reading the answers to your questions. I was a new builder a year ago, and now consider myself an intermediate level builder, and I still gain a lot by reading and responding to these discussions.

-Rand.

In my engineering days, we would say "you've drawn it, and that's the hardest part." Of course, we would also tell the machinist "I drew it, so you must be able to make it."

Well done mate, this is just what I'm looking for as a beginner. You fella's certainly know you're stuff. So inspirational.

 

cheers

Sammmy

I'm a new builder as well - I'm working on my 3rd build and will someday gets pics up on my page - but are your really going to use Ipe?  That seems nuts (and cool but mostly nuts).  My first build (God rest it's departed soul) was a 19" scale for my girls made of Purple Heart.  Oh my gosh what a mistake!  That stuff was hard as rock, dulled all my nice tools, and would split at the blink of an eye.  There are reasons guitars are made of particular woods.  My suggestion would be to stick with Mahogoney if you want a nice wood for a beginner.  You can buy it and other nice stuff like rosewood at Woodcraft for reasonable prices if you're not going the rustic route.

 

I do CAD up my builds now too and find it really helps prevent unforseen issues.

Some thoughts.

1-1/4 from the nut to the first tuner is problematic. Add a little space, you wont regret it. Add some material to the back of your head stock as well.

Ipe is beyond hard. I have some for experimentation. Hard on even carbide tools. Also its an "oily" wood and doesnt take glue real well. Good news is you can drill and tap it like it was metal. It can be done, dont get me wrong, but I may just use what I have for bridges and such where you would commonly use ebony.

Planning ahead is a very good plan. But dont be too precise planning your initial builds. Sometimes you have to be a little flexible and leave some wiggle room in your plans. One minor mistake, slightly inaccurate cut, whatever, and you will need to compensate to correct it.

Most of all, have fun, and share what you learn.

Mark

Thanks for the comments and words of encouragement. I ripped my first piece of IPE for the neck last night. May not be the best choice of wood for the neck (as some have already pointed out). I will write more later when I get back to my computer.


In the picture above you can see the new neck that I ripped sitting on top of the cigar box. As Mark advised, this plan is not set in stone and I have already changed my mind on a few things. First the cigar box to use for the project has changed and this one has slightly different measurements. Next, I will not make the angled cut on the head, just dado it out 1/8 to 1/4. I am saving the angled stuff for another build (way in the future) when I try to make a scarf joint.

Mark, do you think 2 inches from nut to first tuner is about right? My current neck blank is long enough to do this (and a bit more). Is 1 1/14 between tuners about right? Also, if I don't angle the cut, do you think I still need to reinforce the headstock? Thanks for the input, this is exactly the type of thing I was looking for by posting the diagram.

A few of you have commented on my use of IPE "Brazilian Walnut" as a choice for the neck. I must admit that I did not research it enough before I bought it. I got a really good deal on an odd lot of this flooring and it was kind of an impulse buy because I like the color and the look and the price was right ($25 for 23sq ft - enough to make at least 17 necks). I should have read up on it a bit before pulling the trigger.

For any of you considering IPE, you should know that the sawdust is a very fine yellow powder and some people are allergic to it (skin and respiratory reactions). Some people get very sick from it. I was in long sleeves, pants, and had on a dust mask. Didn't really bother me, but after just one rip of a 34 inch piece on the table saw I can see I need to upgrade my dust mask. Also interrupted the project to start working on a dust collection system for the table saw immediately. The stuff is really messy to cut. Also need to improve ventilation in the garage as I have yellow dust everywhere.

Some more stuff I did't know about IPE, it is one of the hardest woods on the planet. It is very heavy and feels more like stone or metal than wood. It is hard on tools as some have already pointed out. But, it is very beautiful and the price was right, so I am gonna try it anyway. If it does not work well for my guitar, My wife has been wanting an island in the kitchen anyway, and I should have enough to make a nice counter top for that.

After I ripped the neck to 1 1/4 inch wide I started thinking It was a bit too narrow. I should have left it at least 1/8 inch wider and run it through the planer (planer not mine, borrowed from friend) to clean up the cut. Also, it would have left bit of room to shape it with my router. As it is, I will need to be very conservative with rounding off any material on the front side. The reason I choose 1 1/14 width was string spacing. My first build the neck was 1 1/2 wide and the strings were spaced 3/8 from each edge and 3/8 between each. I liked the 3/8 between strings, but felt the distance from the edge was a bit too wide. I wanted 1/8 from edge of neck to string, but did not want a 1 inch wide neck. Anyway, it looks a bit weird, but actually feels good in my hand, so I am going with it for this build.

In the pic above, you can see the neck blank sitting on top of what will be the body (cigar box). Also to the left of that, are the two wast edges from the rip cuts. Further left, you can see a full piece of the IPE Bellawood Hardwood flooring. If you look closely at the waste pieces, you can see why this was a "odd lot" (aka factory defect) as the edges had some "flaws". But, after ripping off these edges, I now have a very nice piece of 1 1/4 X 3/4 X 35 inch neck blank. Still need to trim it for length. Also, looking at the full piece you can see the grooves on the bottom of the stock (assumed they are there to hold glue?) and the max usable width you could rip would be about 1 3/4 if you want the full 3/4 thickness. I still think going with this type of material (i.e. Hardwood flooring planks) is a valid method for getting nice wood for your money, but might have chosen another wood species.

Anyway, I will update the diagram with some of the changes at some point and post it again. I kinda wish I could delete the above one when I update it because I don't want other newbees repeating my mistakes. I think I will let this thread serve as my build thread and post more updates soon as I hope to work on it some more tonight. Thanks again for all of the comments, and keep them coming.

Remember to drill your holes for the tuning machines from the back, not the front if you are going to cut an angle as drawn. That angle actually isn't going to do much for you unless you just like the aesthetics of it. Be sure to check the thickness of your headstock and compare it to the required minimum thickness for whatever you will use for tuning machines. It would be a shame to spend a lot of time cutting it too thin (speaking from experience.)

Bama,

Apologies for the delay, have had network access issues.

I forgot to mention the hazardous dust, Ipe, and many other exotics, can make you VERY ill and cause PERMANENT resperatory damage. I consider it mandatory to use dust control measures and resperatory protection when working with any wood in the shop, but Ipe, Ebony, Rosewood and others are especially dangerous! Effects range from allergy type reactions to severe ashmatic type events, and can cause very serious long term issues! In fact beware of breathing any kind of dust from any source. This stuff can cause you much grief later in life! (I have mild resperatory damage from a lifetime and career long exposure to various environmental hazards!)

I personally consider 1.5 inches on center to be my minimum distance between tuners. Some build them closer but it feels awkward and cramped to me.

2 inches from nut to first tuner may work, but success relys on a combination of things in the design. I shoot for 10 or 12 degrees MINIMUM string angle over the nut. The area that has caused many of us some grief is the headstock thickness and the resultant tuning machine shaft projection. Shaft length varies some, so aquire your tuners and check it.

My note about adding material to the back was for this reason and not for any reinforcement purposes. If the headstock design is too thin and the shaft sticks way out, it can negate the intended string angle designed into your headstock. Very common mistake. I have done it even after knowing to avoid it!

As I have stated before in other discussions, I personally try to design a headstock in a way that avoids trees, guides or other additional hardware, but many people do use them and its a great way to make a good workable design without scarf cuts or complicated headstock designs. Too short a distance between the nut and first tuner makes it difficult to get the desired angle and difficult to use any of these devices  to get the needed break over the nut. I agree with E D that the angle cut you show is probably not a good solution. The simple thinning (or raised fingerboard) and adding material to the back of the headstock area is probably the simplest solution I have seen. Slotted headstocks or scarf cuts arent hard, but do take a little more equipment and skill as a general rule.

Study some of the designs in the picture gallery for some ideas and other peoples solutions as well. I recently did a build blog on one with a carved neck to show yet another alternative way to get an angled headstock. It may also give you some ideas as well as better explain some of what I am trying to say.

Have fun!

Mark

 

Just and update to prove I have not totally given up on my latest project. The neck is cut except fret slots and tuner holes. The box is cut but still needs minor tweaking with needle files. Here is a shot of the guitar in its current state.

 

So I am a couple weeks in and what have I learned....

1. The line forms here to deliver the "I told you so". IPE is a poor choice for necks. It is hard to work with. And I have spent so much time an effort on trying to control the sawdust, I had to ask myself if I was doing this project to build guitars or have the best homemade dust collection systems on the cigar box nation website. I want to build guitars dammit! I will finish this project with the IPE neck and then retire this wood for a while until my skills improve.

 

2. Harbor Freight Store is your friend. They have lots of tools for cheap and they work great. If you don't have one close to you, check out the website. My local store is having a parking lot sale this weekend. For example, they have a very decent little drill press this weekend for $40. Go buy one if you can't afford any other drill press.

 

3. Take time with the box cutouts. Err on the side of making them a bit too small and then use sandpaper and/or needle file set (3.99 harbor freight) to clean up the cut.

 

4. I need a better method for making the relief cut on the neck. Using my table saw as a 1/8 inch dado is dangerous and does not yeild the best results. Maybe buy a real dado blade, use a router, or something else, but need I improvement here.

 

5. Be very careful when using a hand held router. It is easy to screw up a perfectly good neck by using poor technique. Also, consider not being so aggressive with the round-over bits. Otherwise, your neck may look more like a broom stick than a guitar neck. And if you suck at using a router (like me), make a cheap router table out of scrap wood and mount that sucker. There are numerous examples on you tube. This is next little side project before I take on more routing work.

 

Now some questions for yall...

 

I am ready to place my order to CB gitty for fret wire, tuners, strings, sound hole covers and some other little goodies that I will need to finish this build. I can't decide which fret wire but I am leaning towards the medium/medium nickel. I would appreciate your input here... I am trying to keep all hardware on this build a silver or nickel color. Closed gear chrome tuning machines, nickel fret wire, etc...

 

Also, I can't seem to wrap my head around exactly how to marry the neck to the box. Do I glue it to the box / lid? Do I build it up with blocks and screw it on? Seems like a stupid question, but again I ask for help here.

 

Thanks to all that have posted comments. Keep them coming.

Just some comments on items #4 & #5. If I were going to use a dado blade to cut the relief, I would make sure the neck is supported over length of the cut with an auxillary fence (piece of scrap wood) screwed on to  my miter gage (or, use a crosscut sled). Don't try to use the rip fence to keep the cut straight. On using the router, make a "jig" similar to a miter box to lay the neck in. Make it wide enough to support the width of the router base. The trick to doing these cuts is to keep the router stable, even if you need to fab up a wider base from plexiglass or masonite. When doing necks, I have found a router can be your best friend. Also, practice with your router and "sneak" up on the cue cut. Trying to take out too much material can riun your project in a heartbeat. Be Safe!

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