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Piezo deadened my unplugged sound!

Posted by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on April 27, 2010 at 7:39pm in Performances, How to Play, Lessons, Concerts
Has this happened to anyone else? I have a really nice sounding cbg with no piezo, it has a nice ring to it. So I put a piezo in it under the lid stuck on with heavy duty double stick mounting tape, not the foam kind. Then I put some foam tape on the back and a piece of 1/2 inch foam on that for sound deadening. I mounted it juts above the top string so it won't touch my thru neck.  Now it still sounds good for a cigar box but it seems a little heavier, if that make sense. and the top string is a bit deadish. The piezo disc is a big on, about 1.25 inch diameter.  I am going to have to re mount it to see if I can get back some of my unplugged sound, any suggestions?
By the way it sounds great plugged in, I just want both!

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Replies

  • Wichita Sam May 4, 2010 at 10:58am
    On the builds that I've done this, I located the piezo strip directly under the bridge saddle.... its proximity to the bridge/strings more than offset any signal loss because of reduced size......

    under the bridge of the banjo/paint lid reso and a strip of piezo cut from a 20mm round piezo... cut down it's less than 10mm wide and about 9/16" long. You can see it play at.... http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/farmer-jones-and-the-mule BTW, that video's sound is from a battery powered 1 watt amp into a laptop's integrated mic.... thanks, Wichita Sam
    Wes Yates said:
    So I wonder what the effect of cutting down piezos is -- would it be less signal, less handing noise, less high end... dunno.


    -WY

    Wichita Sam said:
    Michael... why don't you just cut the piezo down in size? I've done this on several builds where I needed a small piezo and didn't have on on hand. Didn't seem to effect the responsivenss of the piezo much and if your theory is correct will totally transform your soundd..... It makes you wonder about guitars with bridge plate/saddle arrangements.... would they be better with only a sliver of a bridge in contact with the top?


    the best,

    Sam

    MichaelS said:
    I will try removing the foam from the back first and see what that does. I also have a theory of my own, I think the large diameter disk is muting the soundboard a bit by stiffening up the area it is stuck too. Its big ad there is not much area to these CBG sound boards. If taking the foam off does not work I may try sticking the disk on with less contact points, maybe 3 small pieces of double stick instead of covering the whole disc. I will report back my findings.

    Its amazing how such a small change can really effect the sound, and my ears are not that good either so it must really be changed.
  • Joker May 4, 2010 at 5:48am
    I have found that building the piezo into the bridge above the box give mine the best sound. You get direct vibration from the strings so you do not need to crank the volume. In the pic below the piezo is sandwiched in the bridge made from cigar box inserts

  • Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates May 3, 2010 at 12:36pm
    So I wonder what the effect of cutting down piezos is -- would it be less signal, less handing noise, less high end... dunno.

    -WY

    Wichita Sam said:
    Michael... why don't you just cut the piezo down in size? I've done this on several builds where I needed a small piezo and didn't have on on hand. Didn't seem to effect the responsivenss of the piezo much and if your theory is correct will totally transform your soundd..... It makes you wonder about guitars with bridge plate/saddle arrangements.... would they be better with only a sliver of a bridge in contact with the top?

    the best,

    Sam

    MichaelS said:
    I will try removing the foam from the back first and see what that does. I also have a theory of my own, I think the large diameter disk is muting the soundboard a bit by stiffening up the area it is stuck too. Its big ad there is not much area to these CBG sound boards. If taking the foam off does not work I may try sticking the disk on with less contact points, maybe 3 small pieces of double stick instead of covering the whole disc. I will report back my findings.
    Its amazing how such a small change can really effect the sound, and my ears are not that good either so it must really be changed.
  • MichaelS Country Boy Guitars May 3, 2010 at 11:30am
    How does it sound without the foam block? My mistake was playing the cbg without the piezo added to it for a month or so, Then I added the piezo and it changed the sound that it had. If I had built it this way from the start I would have been fine with it, it sound good, just different than before. These little things we add to the inside, and outside really do make a difference, good or bad.

    Brendan deVallance said:
    I have a large block of foam rubber that holds my piezo in place. I use no glue. The foam is the with of the box cavitity. And it seems to sound fine with and with out the pick-up. —B
  • Brendan deVallance May 2, 2010 at 11:18pm
    I have a large block of foam rubber that holds my piezo in place. I use no glue. The foam is the with of the box cavitity. And it seems to sound fine with and with out the pick-up. —B
  • MichaelS Country Boy Guitars April 28, 2010 at 12:35pm
    UPDATE: I removed the foam, 1/2" x 1 3/8" round piece of open cell foam, from the back of the peizo and some of the foam tape that held it on. I had to leave some there to hold the wires on, they seem loose. Soldering a piezo is not as easy as it sounds.
    RESULT: The acoustic sound is better, not fully returned but better. The amped sound is the same and no feedback or exsesive internal sound issues. I think a smaller or cut down as Sam has suggested piezo would be even better.
  • Wichita Sam April 28, 2010 at 8:33am
    Michael... why don't you just cut the piezo down in size? I've done this on several builds where I needed a small piezo and didn't have on on hand. Didn't seem to effect the responsivenss of the piezo much and if your theory is correct will totally transform your soundd..... It makes you wonder about guitars with bridge plate/saddle arrangements.... would they be better with only a sliver of a bridge in contact with the top?

    the best,

    Sam

    MichaelS said:
    I will try removing the foam from the back first and see what that does. I also have a theory of my own, I think the large diameter disk is muting the soundboard a bit by stiffening up the area it is stuck too. Its big ad there is not much area to these CBG sound boards. If taking the foam off does not work I may try sticking the disk on with less contact points, maybe 3 small pieces of double stick instead of covering the whole disc. I will report back my findings.
    Its amazing how such a small change can really effect the sound, and my ears are not that good either so it must really be changed.
  • MichaelS Country Boy Guitars April 28, 2010 at 8:09am
    I will try removing the foam from the back first and see what that does. I also have a theory of my own, I think the large diameter disk is muting the soundboard a bit by stiffening up the area it is stuck too. Its big ad there is not much area to these CBG sound boards. If taking the foam off does not work I may try sticking the disk on with less contact points, maybe 3 small pieces of double stick instead of covering the whole disc. I will report back my findings.
    Its amazing how such a small change can really effect the sound, and my ears are not that good either so it must really be changed.
  • Outhouse Instruments April 27, 2010 at 9:32pm
    I is in much agreement wit Sam.
    I just hot glue mine to the lid under the bridge. As long as I'm not facing the at 11 it's fine.
    Now .... for you, try to put it on the back wall under the neck, or the front in the same place.
    This will get all that vibe dampening stuff off of the lid.


    Matt
  • Wichita Sam April 27, 2010 at 8:22pm
    Michael, I've believed for a long time that people were over engineering the piezo mounting to limit feedback... I think you just proved it.... when I mount a piezo disc under the lid/top, I only use a little silicone caulk on the piezo back and have almost no problems with feedback....

    With a "heavy treatment" to dampen feedback hurting acoustic properties, I wonder how much such setups are hurting amplified sound....

    thanks for the report....

    the best,

    Sam
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