hi,
I want to build an acoustic 3string, and I got this cigar box which is mostly covered with paper (attached). It looks really cool, but what kind of finish or varnish can I use on it, so that the design is preserved? If I don't use anything it will wear and tear off in a matter of days. Any ideas? or should I go for a box without any paper?
thanks!
gene, It you're playing "sllide", string height isn't an issue, unless you're depressing the strings a lot. Intonation vs. string heigth is only an issue if you're fretting... the best, Sam
gene said:
Thanks Gitty and Sam for these very valuable tips. Today I filed the bridge about 2mm lower and intonation seems a lot better. still not perfect but definitely better. I don't want to bring the action too low right now because I think I will primarily use it with a bottleneck. May be I'll tweak more with it later.
I've been thinking about doing some lacquer finish projects, myself. Patience is definitely my problem. Once I start on a guitar I can't wait to string it up and play it.
For anybody that is looking to do some lacquer work, I would recommend checking out some of Red Dog John McNair's techniques. For some reason he seems to be boycotting the 'Nation', but you can find him all over Youtube. He is the absolutely king of lacquer finishes. A long history of auto body shop work, I guess.
Thanks Gitty and Sam for these very valuable tips. Today I filed the bridge about 2mm lower and intonation seems a lot better. still not perfect but definitely better. I don't want to bring the action too low right now because I think I will primarily use it with a bottleneck. May be I'll tweak more with it later. anyways, here are some photos :D
When fretted notes are "way off"... like a 1/2 step, a whole step or more, you probably have a high fret. The first thing I do when I string up a new CBG is run all the frets one string at a time from the nut to the box end of the fretboard. If I get, da-da-da-da-da-da-da one 1/2 note at a time yippee... but often one or several frets will "jump up" a whole note of more... this is a sure give away that you have a high fret that either didn't seat tightly or you maybe have a rise the the fretboard at that point.
first visually inspect the high fret (that's the one that "belongs to the way off note). If yo can see it riding high, unstring the CBG and hammer it down. If not, then the cure is to get out your "dressing block" and lightly sand the frets. You will quickly find the high one. Then it's sand, test, sand, test, sand, test...etc. until you get the chromatic 1/2 step all the way up the fretboard...
hope this helps...
Wichita SAm
gene said:
Well I am finally done with it!!! my first CBG! spent a lot of time over christmas filing and making a mess in the living room :D Thanks for all your help, guys. I'll post the photos when I have them. I couldn't wait to get it finished, I was so anxious to see what it looks and sounds like when put together. I was pretty surprised that it sounded that good after stringing it! I thought "damn, I can't believe that this sound comes out from this little box!!!
the only problem with the guitar is that for some reason, fretting certain notes doesn't sound quite right, actually way off would be more exact. I am not sure why, I was pretty careful to measure frets as exact as possible. May be it has something to do with action? my bridge turned out a lot higher than normal.
Getting strings to intonate correctly is tricky. I'm still struggling with it myself. But from what I've gathered on here and from trial and error, a few different things work together to make a string produce the pitch you want at a certain fret. The obvious one is of course scale length and proper fret measurement, and it sounds like you gave that the deserved attention.
The other big players are string tension (how tight or slack it is), string gauge, and action height. If a string is too loose or too tight (I find it more with too loose), when you press it down on a fret it will distend more than a properly tensioned string will, and not produce the correct tone. The solution to tension is to use the proper string gauge for the scale length and pitch you are trying to create. There is a calculator online that is meant to help with this, but it can be fairly tricky to use. At best, I use it as a starting point, and go with trial and error from there.
A basic guide/comparison would be to take a properly tuned acoustic steel-string guitar, and test how much tension are in the strings by moving them back and forth horizontally. Get a feel for how easily they move and how far you can move them, both the wound and plain steel strings. Then try to achieve the same basic tension on your CBG.
Action height is the other one. If your action is very high, you are stretching the string more to get it down to the fret, thus increasing the tension more and likely driving your pitch sharper (higher) than it would be if your action were lower. You might consider sanding your bridge down a bit to lower the action height.
Hope this helps. I'm barely past the beginner stage myself when it comes to all of this.
Well I am finally done with it!!! my first CBG!
spent a lot of time over christmas filing and making a mess in the living room :D Thanks for all your help, guys. I'll post the photos when I have them. I couldn't wait to get it finished, I was so anxious to see what it looks and sounds like when put together. I was pretty surprised that it sounded that good after stringing it! I thought "damn, I can't believe that this sound comes out from this little box!!!
the only problem with the guitar is that for some reason, fretting certain notes doesn't sound quite right, actually way off would be more exact. I am not sure why, I was pretty careful to measure frets as exact as possible. May be it has something to do with action? my bridge turned out a lot higher than normal.
you might also wanna do something to the back, cuz that looks like the type of box that splinters on the back. many of my paper boxes have a rough, splintery back
didn't think of that, but it definatly makes sense. the guitar that I did that too was very loud despite that but I think it was because of the "dobro-like" bridge that I used. I'll definatly not do that again. Thanks for the knowledge wichita sam.
Wichita Sam said:
Generally, the reason I reject adding finishes to the box, is that it reduces it's responsiveness... Certainly adding a layer of packing tape would restrict the top's vibration....
bucky said:
i'm always thinking of the cheapest way to achieve results. I have actually used clear packaging tape and taped the whole dang box. It doesn't look that bad if you take the time and make sure there are no air bubbles and line the seems of the tape up nicely. just another idea I thought i would throw out there.
Generally, the reason I reject adding finishes to the box, is that it reduces it's responsiveness...
Certainly adding a layer of packing tape would restrict the top's vibration....
bucky said:
i'm always thinking of the cheapest way to achieve results. I have actually used clear packaging tape and taped the whole dang box. It doesn't look that bad if you take the time and make sure there are no air bubbles and line the seems of the tape up nicely. just another idea I thought i would throw out there.
Replies
check my discussion "Box with paper cover... lacquer coating or not to be lacguer coating?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoupage
I´m not test that yet but it feels good idea.
gene said:
For anybody that is looking to do some lacquer work, I would recommend checking out some of Red Dog John McNair's techniques. For some reason he seems to be boycotting the 'Nation', but you can find him all over Youtube. He is the absolutely king of lacquer finishes. A long history of auto body shop work, I guess.
When fretted notes are "way off"... like a 1/2 step, a whole step or more, you probably have a high fret. The first thing I do when I string up a new CBG is run all the frets one string at a time from the nut to the box end of the fretboard. If I get, da-da-da-da-da-da-da one 1/2 note at a time yippee... but often one or several frets will "jump up" a whole note of more... this is a sure give away that you have a high fret that either didn't seat tightly or you maybe have a rise the the fretboard at that point.
first visually inspect the high fret (that's the one that "belongs to the way off note). If yo can see it riding high, unstring the CBG and hammer it down. If not, then the cure is to get out your "dressing block" and lightly sand the frets. You will quickly find the high one. Then it's sand, test, sand, test, sand, test...etc. until you get the chromatic 1/2 step all the way up the fretboard...
hope this helps...
Wichita SAm
gene said:
Getting strings to intonate correctly is tricky. I'm still struggling with it myself. But from what I've gathered on here and from trial and error, a few different things work together to make a string produce the pitch you want at a certain fret. The obvious one is of course scale length and proper fret measurement, and it sounds like you gave that the deserved attention.
The other big players are string tension (how tight or slack it is), string gauge, and action height. If a string is too loose or too tight (I find it more with too loose), when you press it down on a fret it will distend more than a properly tensioned string will, and not produce the correct tone. The solution to tension is to use the proper string gauge for the scale length and pitch you are trying to create. There is a calculator online that is meant to help with this, but it can be fairly tricky to use. At best, I use it as a starting point, and go with trial and error from there.
A basic guide/comparison would be to take a properly tuned acoustic steel-string guitar, and test how much tension are in the strings by moving them back and forth horizontally. Get a feel for how easily they move and how far you can move them, both the wound and plain steel strings. Then try to achieve the same basic tension on your CBG.
Action height is the other one. If your action is very high, you are stretching the string more to get it down to the fret, thus increasing the tension more and likely driving your pitch sharper (higher) than it would be if your action were lower. You might consider sanding your bridge down a bit to lower the action height.
Hope this helps. I'm barely past the beginner stage myself when it comes to all of this.
spent a lot of time over christmas filing and making a mess in the living room :D Thanks for all your help, guys. I'll post the photos when I have them. I couldn't wait to get it finished, I was so anxious to see what it looks and sounds like when put together. I was pretty surprised that it sounded that good after stringing it! I thought "damn, I can't believe that this sound comes out from this little box!!!
the only problem with the guitar is that for some reason, fretting certain notes doesn't sound quite right, actually way off would be more exact. I am not sure why, I was pretty careful to measure frets as exact as possible. May be it has something to do with action? my bridge turned out a lot higher than normal.
Wichita Sam said:
Certainly adding a layer of packing tape would restrict the top's vibration....
bucky said:
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