To fret or not to fret, Measurements, and other S**t

Good day all. I am NEW to building and playing guitars, so please excuse my IG-nance.

I am building my first CBG, and had a question on fretting.

I would like to have frets to aid in my learning, but also want the freedom of having no frets (I hope that I am making some sense). I would like to make my cuts for the frets, but NOT put the fret wire in the cuts (just stain the cuts). Have any of you seen this before? Will making the cuts and not laying the fret wire mess up the sound? Is this a stupid idea?

Also, how many frets are good to have, the maximum aloud by space (18-20), or are any number of frets OK?

I would like to use a 26 inch or a 25.5 inch nut to bridge measurement. A 24.5 inch measurement places my bridge about the middle of my box. Is the sound on a 26 inch measurement OK? Are the sounds that different?

I am in Japan and having trouble finding good cigar boxes. Any of you know where I can get some boxes in the Pacific region without paying an arm and a leg for shipping? I have a guy in the states, but 12 boxes will cost me around 170 dollars including shipping. How about other supplies like necks tuning pegs without paying an arm and a leg?

Lastly, any ideas for resonators? I was thinking of using the top of a metal loose tea box drilled with holes. Any other ideas?

That is it. Thanks for the replys in advance. Hit me up!!!

Douglas

Hey. Just wanted to say thanks for the reply, but have another question. I am in the middle of fretting my neck right now, and have run into a problem. I am doing it in MILLIMETERS for more accuracy. Not to mention, finding a inch measuring stick is difficult where I am.

I went to the website: StewartMac for the calculations. I would like to do a 25.5 inch (string strength) 20 fret acoustic or electric. But when you do a conversion to millimeters 25.5 X 2.54 X 10 you get 647.7 millimeters. I see on websites that the string strength for a 25.5 is NOT 647.5, but 650. Which one is the correct number to use? How about the other numbers; 22, 24.5, 26, ect.? Why is there such a big difference? Luckily I did not make my cuts yet, because I would be off by a few millimeters. Am I missing something, or have I made a mistake in calculations? Please help!!!

Douglas

MichaelS said:

I just mark my frets with a wood burning tool, it makes a neat black line and a small dent. It works fine for fretting and for slide, no fret buzz. I mark all the frets on my neck but some just fret them like a dulcimer and the new idea is a blue-cimer. Do a search for that one. Basically it is just the basic frets you need to make good music without the extras. I'm thinking of trying this out, but I still like my fretless.
I have been using a 24 inch scale and have been able to fit it to most box sizes. Check out pictures on mine and others pages too.
For box's try thinking outside the cigar box, someone just posted a picture of a japanese mandarin orange box, complete with cool Japanese lettering and some import wording too. Maybe a sushi crate(do they come in crates?) Any box will do as long as it has a reasonably thin lid. Keep your eyes and ideas open. Good luck happy hunting.

Replies

Douglas Eric Marsalis April 24, 2010 at 11:06am

Thanks all for the replies. Couple more questions:

Mounting the nut, should it be at a height of 4 mm or 5 mm? Cut a groove for the nut, or just set it on top of the finger board?

As far as the bridge, should it be half of the height of the nut? Placing it is ALWAYS 2x the 12th fret right?

Anyone ever heard of using ukulele tuning pegs with good success? They are just straight pegs that would be mounted from the back of the neck and are not angled like usual guitar pegs.

Clear coat finish everything, or leave it natural?

Lastly, what do ya'll recommend for a transducer, build it from scratch, or buy one from the guitar shop? I found one at a guitar shop for around 30 bucks.

Thanks to all of you again for answering my questions. I am really enjoying the challenge of building this guitar. I am an addict already. Oh, I decided to just make my cuts for the fret board, but NOT lay in fret wire at this time. Can you believe that Japan (at least in my area) does not have wood burning tools? I think half of my problems so far have been the lack of items that are easily found back home and the extreme prices of everything. Ahhhh, Japan.

Douglas
Douglas Eric Marsalis April 24, 2010 at 10:42am

Hey. Just wanted to say thanks for the reply, but have another question. I am in the middle of fretting my neck right now, and have run into a problem. I am doing it in MILLIMETERS for more accuracy. Not to mention, finding a inch measuring stick is difficult where I am.

I went to the website: StewartMac for the calculations. I would like to do a 25.5 inch (string strength) 20 fret acoustic or electric. But when you do a conversion to millimeters 25.5 X 2.54 X 10 you get 647.7 millimeters. I see on websites that the string strength for a 25.5 is NOT 647.5, but 650. Which one is the correct number to use? How about the other numbers; 22, 24.5, 26, ect.? Why is there such a big difference? Luckily I did not make my cuts yet, because I would be off by a few millimeters. Am I missing something, or have I made a mistake in calculations? Please help!!!

Douglas

MichaelS said:
I just mark my frets with a wood burning tool, it makes a neat black line and a small dent. It works fine for fretting and for slide, no fret buzz. I mark all the frets on my neck but some just fret them like a dulcimer and the new idea is a blue-cimer. Do a search for that one. Basically it is just the basic frets you need to make good music without the extras. I'm thinking of trying this out, but I still like my fretless.
I have been using a 24 inch scale and have been able to fit it to most box sizes. Check out pictures on mine and others pages too.
For box's try thinking outside the cigar box, someone just posted a picture of a japanese mandarin orange box, complete with cool Japanese lettering and some import wording too. Maybe a sushi crate(do they come in crates?) Any box will do as long as it has a reasonably thin lid. Keep your eyes and ideas open. Good luck happy hunting.
HENRY LOWMAN April 22, 2010 at 11:56pm

As far as the number, welllll...I have been experimenting with tempered microtonal scales (when you use a fretless, you also have all the microtones, just not at "fixed" positions). Another idea would be to use tie on frets, which you could move to taste, like those used on the Renaissance lutes and the Turkish saz, as well as the Iranian tar and setar. Look those up. Also, check out the shamisan, a traditional fretless 3 string from Japan! Hope this helps, welcome to the NATION, and GOOD LUCK!...oh, yes...the Zen of it: "Be true to the box, and the box will be true to you!" Embrace the build, and be at one with your tone! LOL!
Roger Martin April 22, 2010 at 6:41pm

I just mark mine with a marker, its MUCH faster and gets the CBG up and playing quicker.
I also use dulcimer fret marks. I believe that it helps new players get comfortable faster which translates into a relaxed learning experience.Thats my thinking anyway,,,,,,,
MichaelS Country Boy Guitars April 22, 2010 at 8:59am

I just mark my frets with a wood burning tool, it makes a neat black line and a small dent. It works fine for fretting and for slide, no fret buzz. I mark all the frets on my neck but some just fret them like a dulcimer and the new idea is a blue-cimer. Do a search for that one. Basically it is just the basic frets you need to make good music without the extras. I'm thinking of trying this out, but I still like my fretless.
I have been using a 24 inch scale and have been able to fit it to most box sizes. Check out pictures on mine and others pages too.
For box's try thinking outside the cigar box, someone just posted a picture of a japanese mandarin orange box, complete with cool Japanese lettering and some import wording too. Maybe a sushi crate(do they come in crates?) Any box will do as long as it has a reasonably thin lid. Keep your eyes and ideas open. Good luck happy hunting.
Roger Morin April 22, 2010 at 7:31am

Well you could make your own box many on here have done that. You mark where the frets would go when your ready to add frets just make them just cut on the marks most build their first one fretless then ad a fret board later or just build a new guitar. Look around for scale length to fit the box you get or make. As for the number of frets thats up to you I have seen guys only go as far as the 15th fret and stop and others go all the way to the end of a fret board. Lately I have seen some of the guys just use a simple tuna fish can turned upside down sitting on something so the sound will come out.
Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates April 22, 2010 at 7:18am

I would like to have frets to aid in my learning, but also want the freedom of having no frets

Fret but have a higher action so you can slide better.

Also, how many frets are good to have, the maximum aloud by space (18-20)

This would depend on the scale -- length between the inside of the nut and the inside of the bridge. The way I build, I
1) decide on a scale
2) make the neck and headstock (peghead) out of 36" of stock
3) mark where the nut is and then where the bridge will be using that scale
4) determine and mark where the box will lie on the neck based on where I want the bridge to be in relation to the box
5) determine the length of the fretboard (if any) and last. Sometimes I make a long fretboard to cover the box lid.
6) Build.
The number of frets is determined from the above

I would like to use a 26 inch or a 25.5 inch nut to bridge measurement. A 24.5 inch measurement places my bridge about the middle of my box. Is the sound on a 26 inch measurement OK? Are the sounds that different?

Build it any way you want. Its yours. There really is little sound difference. It ain't rocket science tho it might seem

-WY

Remember: Amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
surffrogg April 22, 2010 at 3:48am

if ur not gonna put frets in why slot ....just mark the positions with a sharpie or something

This reply was deleted.