I am beginning to build my very first Cigar Box guitar. I have almost all of the materials gathered but I have a few questions before I start building. I know the world of CBG making seems to be anthing goes as long as the end result is a playable decent sounding guitar, but I was hoping someone can help me out with some answers. First, I am going to be making a fretless neck. I am planing on allowing 19.5 inches for the playing portion of the neck, I was wondering if this is sufficient. I will be marking the frets with a woodburning tool. Although I do enjoy playing acoustic guitars I come from an electric guitar background and all but 2 of my 6 guitars have 24 frets. I was planing on using the frets of my number one guitar as a guide for the scale and also to mark the frets on my CBG. Which leads me to my 2nd question. Is making a "24 fret" CBG is a bad idea? I know they will just be markers and not working frets but I am planing on building a playable instrument haha. The 3rd question is that i have a paper covered Punch Box measuring 9 3/4" x 7 3/4" x 2" I would like to do 2 f-holes on either side of the punch logo. I noticed that most CBG have at least 2 round holes drilled into them. I was wondering if this is because it is easier to do or because it actually does a better job projecting the sound than the f-holes. Thank you for reading I look forward to any advice.
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I always build fretless for slide and usually only mark my 3rd 5th 7th 9th and 12th for reference after its strung and count on what I hear as to where those marks land.
I'm only saying that in my limited experience, for acoustic playing situations, an instrument with soundholes seems to work better than one without. Beyond that it seems that, despite various scientific-type research by people like Ovation, it is mostly a matter of trial and error when it comes to finding what shape and size produces a preferred sound. I suspect that one of the most important characteristics is the ratio between the area of the holes and the volume of the body (I stress that I don't have research to support this at present, its just a gut feeling). I also guess the position of holes on a soundboard (and to some extent their shape) will affect the modes of oscillation of that soundboard - so a soundboard with f-holes either side of the strings will vibrate in different ways to one with a single round hole in the middle. I think the main reason we see f-holes on guitars is that early guitar makers copied them from other stringed instruments (where they had evolved over a long period of time through trial and error and also for aesthetic reasons). Aesthetic factors have continued to make the "f" shape a popular design but other shapes can be just as effective.
It is perfectly possible to play acoustically using an instrument without soundholes - it's just that, in my experience, they tend to be quieter. All sorts of other factors, including the thickness and material of the soundboard, will influence the quality and level of the acoustic sound. It's quite possible that an instrument without holes might produce a tonal quality that some people find preferrable - or you might find you prefer the electric sound of an instrument without soundholes and the quiet acoustic sound is good for practice situations.
Wichita Sam said:
Could you elaborate please on how "soundholes make a significant difference to the acoustic sound of an instrument" and how this truth transfers to the acoustic sound properties of a typical CBG? Are you suggesting the f-holes are superior or inferior to simple round holes? On the old forum there was some discussion about the total size of sound holes being the significant issue... I'm not fussing with you, but really am interested in the information.
Which agrees with most of the technical reading I've done over the years. In an acoustic instrument, most all of the "box" contributes to sound production; some acoustic artists even place a microphone to the rear of the instrument.
The sound hole can alter the quality of the sound to a considerable degree, as witness the various technical innovations tried over the years. D-shaped holes, offset holes, lots of little holes, (Ovation) and so forth.
There were a number of technical articles on all this published in Guitar Player over the years...I don't know if they have an online archive.
I agree with Cam, when I built my first I was sure of only one thing: I wanted to build one. Looking at pictures confused me as much as helped. I had a stack of boxes but I didnt want to ruin one. I picked the least nice box I had and built one, no frets, just built it. I call it my guinea pig...every new idea I come across I try it out on this guitar. Took the strings off and super glued toothpick frets, replaced my homemade bridge with a bolt, then a piece of all-thread, then a skeleton key. The experimentation has greatly improved the CBG's I build for others. This one is not the nicest, but I always find myself picking it up to play on. a little extra hint, pick your box and get it ready for the neck. Take an un-cut 1x2 and place it in place of said box. Get a feel for the size/scale you want for the entire instrument. Then worry about the length of the scale. As has been said, the number of frets is usually an accident that is dependent on neck length. My guinea pig is a Punch (9.25x7.25) tip to tip it's 32", 25.5" scale, 19 frets (had room for a few more) makes my fingers hurt when I play, and makes my cheeks sore from smilin...dont be this guy...
Don't panic. Just throw the first build together and don't sweat about frets. Make the first one as fast as you can. You can always add fret markers and soundholes later if you think you need them. More important to overcome the first build anxiety. I put it off for almost 6 months overthinking everything. See what the first build is like and then plan future builds according to what more you want in your next models.
So do you think that size box and neck with that scale and 24 frets would be ok. Most of the CBG I have seen have a shorter neck with 19 or 20 frets. It is my first build and I dont want to build something thats not going to sound or play right.
Wichita Sam said:
Hi Jim,
I think your looking at the process backwards. The number of frets is an "accident" of how long your scale length is... and where you place the bridge. Like steve said, usually 1/3 from the tail of the box... so say you have a 9 inch box, that'd be six inches of "scale over the box and the rest over the neck (by the way, I just ran the numbers thru the StewMac fret calculator http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator ) and a nine inch box with the bridge at 3 inches from the tail will give you 24 frets. Obviously, the more you move the bridge toward the neck, the more frets on the neck and the longer the neck will have to be. Anyway, for most slide guitar, much above 21 frets is pretty esoteric. ( I guess if you need more "frets" you could always build a cutaway...LOL...it's been done.)
let us see the out come... we love new builders...
the best,
Wichita Sam
Jim138 said:
Ohh yea. I forgot to mention the guitar I am basing the neck off of has a 24 fret 25 1/2" scale neck. I could base it off of my Gibson Les Paul 22 fret neck. I understand what you mean with the f-holes I was planing on making them approx 3 inches long and kind of thin with the holes on the end about 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch or whatever looks right after I draw them up.
My experience is that a small hole- maybe 1/2" - is all you really need- but hey it should look cool too! Bridge and soundboard material also make a big difference.
Wade
Wes Yates said:
My COHIBA electric (not piezo) has no sound holes at all. It does not have the sound projection as my first, more acoustic CBG, but I can still play with no amp. This I suppose is due to the body being hollow.
$.02
-Wes
Junk Box Instruments said:
I disagree. I've found that soundholes make a significant difference to the acoustic sound of an instrument (although obviously they have less effect on the electric sound). However, as regards exact size and design, it's a bit of a hit and miss affair as to what's optimal.
The fact that circular holes are popular is probably down in a large part to them being relatively easy to make. An f-hole is quite an elaborate shape - it might be difficult to produce a neat one if you're working with some of the lower quality box materials which splinter and tear easily (and also if you're working with basic tools and you're not an experienced woodworker).
jim said:
sound holes in most cbg's are strictly cosmetic as far as sound
My COHIBA electric (not piezo) has no sound holes at all. It does not have the sound projection as my first, more acoustic CBG, but I can still play with no amp. This I suppose is due to the body being hollow.
$.02
-Wes
Junk Box Instruments said:
I disagree. I've found that soundholes make a significant difference to the acoustic sound of an instrument (although obviously they have less effect on the electric sound). However, as regards exact size and design, it's a bit of a hit and miss affair as to what's optimal.
The fact that circular holes are popular is probably down in a large part to them being relatively easy to make. An f-hole is quite an elaborate shape - it might be difficult to produce a neat one if you're working with some of the lower quality box materials which splinter and tear easily (and also if you're working with basic tools and you're not an experienced woodworker).
jim said:
sound holes in most cbg's are strictly cosmetic as far as sound
I am a first time builder myself and this is what I have learned, if you would like to play both acoustic and electric, build it like an acoustic guitar so you can add a pickup or piezo. THe neck should not touch the sound board in this design. If its an electric then it does not matter significantly if there are holes or if the neck is mounted to the soundboard. Comments from everyone welcomed as I am learning this art also.
Wichita Sam said:
Hi,
Could you elaborate please on how "soundholes make a significant difference to the acoustic sound of an instrument" and how this truth transfers to the acoustic sound properties of a typical CBG? Are you suggesting the f-holes are superior or inferior to simple round holes? On the old forum there was some discussion about the total size of sound holes being the significant issue... I'm not fussing with you, but really am interested in the information.
the best,
Wichita Sam
Junk Box Instruments said:
I disagree. I've found that soundholes make a significant difference to the acoustic sound of an instrument (although obviously they have less effect on the electric sound). However, as regards exact size and design, it's a bit of a hit and miss affair as to what's optimal.
The fact that circular holes are popular is probably down in a large part to them being relatively easy to make. An f-hole is quite an elaborate shape - it might be difficult to produce a neat one if you're working with some of the lower quality box materials which splinter and tear easily (and also if you're working with basic tools and you're not an experienced woodworker).
jim said:
sound holes in most cbg's are strictly cosmetic as far as sound
Replies
It is perfectly possible to play acoustically using an instrument without soundholes - it's just that, in my experience, they tend to be quieter. All sorts of other factors, including the thickness and material of the soundboard, will influence the quality and level of the acoustic sound. It's quite possible that an instrument without holes might produce a tonal quality that some people find preferrable - or you might find you prefer the electric sound of an instrument without soundholes and the quiet acoustic sound is good for practice situations.
Wichita Sam said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_hole
Which agrees with most of the technical reading I've done over the years. In an acoustic instrument, most all of the "box" contributes to sound production; some acoustic artists even place a microphone to the rear of the instrument.
The sound hole can alter the quality of the sound to a considerable degree, as witness the various technical innovations tried over the years. D-shaped holes, offset holes, lots of little holes, (Ovation) and so forth.
There were a number of technical articles on all this published in Guitar Player over the years...I don't know if they have an online archive.
Wichita Sam said:
Wade
Wes Yates said:
$.02
-Wes
Junk Box Instruments said:
Wichita Sam said:
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