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Questions from the MAN IN JAPAN

Posted by Douglas Eric Marsalis on April 24, 2010 at 8:23pm in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion
Hey. Just wanted to say thanks for those that answered my questions before, but I have more questions. I am in the middle of fretting my neck right now, and have run into a problem. I am doing it in MILLIMETERS for more accuracy. Not to mention, finding a inch measuring stick is difficult where I am.

I went to the website: StewartMac for the calculations. I would like to do a 25.5 inch (string strength) 20 fret acoustic or electric. But when you do a conversion to millimeters 25.5 X 2.54 X 10 you get 647.7 millimeters. I see on websites that the string strength for a 25.5 is NOT 647.5, but 650. Which one is the correct number to use? How about the other numbers; 22, 24.5, 26, ect.? Why is there such a big difference? Luckily I did not make my cuts yet, because I would be off by a few millimeters. Am I missing something, or have I made a mistake in calculations? Please help!!!

Mounting the nut, should it be at a height of 4 mm or 5 mm? Cut a groove for the nut, or just set it on top of the finger board?  I am torn between a wood nut (straight and easy) and a bolt (round, more difficult??).

As far as the bridge, should it be half of the height of the nut? Placing it is ALWAYS 2x the 12th fret right?

Anyone ever heard of using ukulele tuning pegs with good success? They are just straight pegs that would be mounted from the back of the neck and are not angled like usual guitar pegs.

Clear coat finish everything, or leave it natural?

Lastly, what do ya'll recommend for a transducer, build it from scratch, or buy one from the guitar shop? I found one at a guitar shop for around 30 bucks.

Thanks to all of you again for answering my questions. I am really enjoying the challenge of building this guitar. I am an addict already. Oh, I decided to just make my cuts for the fret board, but NOT lay in fret wire at this time. Can you believe that Japan (at least in my area) does not have wood burning tools? I think half of my problems so far have been the lack of items that are easily found back home and the extreme prices of everything. Ahhhh, Japan.

Douglas

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Replies

  • Bluesheart April 25, 2010 at 12:15pm
    If you have access to a "real" guitar, you can just copy the fret,nut ,bridge spacing from it. That will avoid all the measuring/converting and works really well if you are careful. Do not glue/screw down the bridge if you can help it so you can fine tune. If I was go to the trouble of cutting fret slots(Japanese pull saws are great for that by the way) I would put in fret wire too. Otherwise just make marks and you can slot /fret later if you want (another good reason to not glue down bridge/nut.) Piezo transducer and a jack from electronics store is the way to go unless you have money to burn, and they work great.
  • Alan Roberts April 25, 2010 at 4:16am
    Ohayo gozai masu. So many questions! Inches to mm? You have got me there. Shiriiriasen. Looks like 647.7 to me, but I defur to others.

    Nuts -- if you use wood, make it a HARD wood. Bolts are easy, preslotted and wear like ... well, like iron. Adjusting the action isn't as easy with bolts. The round vs square isn't very important; just remember to take measurements from where the string isn't touching the nut. This will either be the lower edge (square) or dead center (round) of the nut.

    To set the action, I went down to my local car parts shop and got a feeler guage. I found some metal leaves I liked and used masking tape to hold it down next to the nut. I then used a fine saw to cut down until I *just* started cutting into the tape. Like the others said, start higher than you think you might want. Lowering it is easy.

    Putting the nut into a slot makes it harder to accidently knock loose.

    The saddle is NOT twice the distance to the 12th fret. Look at a good guitar and notice how the saddle (the bit of bone on top the bridge) is at a SLIGHT angle off perpendicular to centerline. This is the "intonation." However, for your first guitar, ignore this. Heck, use a floating bridge and you can change your mind.

    Saddle height? Changes with neck angle.

    Finish? I always use spray-on nitrocellulose laquer. NOT! Daddy Mojo probably does, but they have more money tied up in their equipment than I do in my cars. I just use minwax, a wipe on polyprop finish. Which, probably, isn't avaiable in the land of the Rising Sun. You could use a number of things, including mineral oil and bee's wax. Do NOT leave natural. Any oil on your fingers, soy sauce on the table or even the tempura fog in the air will leave cosmetic marks on your labor of love. Sea air, or even a brief rain shower, could f@#k it up. Bugs LOVE natural wood. There has to be some AMAZING finishes in Nippon that most gaijin can only dream of.

    Well, if I've been the only one to answer a given question, trust me, I'm right. Unless someone else disagrees, then they're probably right.

    Gambatte!
  • Tracy Kennedy April 25, 2010 at 12:51am
    I dont know much but Ive learned a little and everyones opinions are different, so here goes my .02

    Q: Mounting the nut, should it be at a height of 4 mm or 5 mm? Cut a groove for the nut, or just set it on top of the finger board? I am torn between a wood nut (straight and easy) and a bolt (round, more difficult??).

    A: Final string height should, as Ive read, be about 2 business card thickness above the fret. Nut material is what you have available to use, So far Ive made mine from wood but my current build Im going to use a bolt, The strings will cross the nut (bolt) at the same height, not relying on my accuaracy for cutting the grooves and the spacing will be provided for me by the threads. Either material you choose, use glue sparingly so the nut can be replaced as needed. Also it isnt anymore difficult to make a groove for a bolt. cut a "v" notch to set the bolt in or use a small round rasp.

    Q: As far as the bridge, should it be half of the height of the nut?
    Placing it is ALWAYS 2x the 12th fret right    ?

    A: There is no exact formula for bridge height. It depends on what "action", how high or low you want the strings for your particular playing style. Low action (lower bridge) is ideal for pick playing and high action (high bridge) is ideal for plucking. As I have found so far, my bridge height is determined by how well my neck fits the box. If it angles down my bridge will need to be taller so the strings will clear the last frets on the finger board. If the neck angles or bows up, the bridge will need to be lower to bring the strings down closer to the finger board. And YES, for proper intonation the 12th fret must measure half the distance between the nut and bridge i.e; 25.5 scale, the 12th fret should be 12.75" from the finger board side of the nut and the same distance from the finger board side of the bridge

    As far as the other questions are concerned. Its up to you what parts you use and how you finish it. Dont over think it and dont try to reinvent the wheel. This is your first build....HAVE FUN! When you build your second, learn from all the mistakes you made from building the first one. My first build sucked by comparison to my second. I scavenged parts from the first to build the second one. Im only in the middle of building my 3rd and 4th CBG's now and my 2nd build fails to compare to them. Notice the pattern developing?
  • Paul Doug April 24, 2010 at 10:18pm
    Sure didn't know that about Google. Awesome, thanks Try metric when measuring, you will find it a lot easier. I started doing it and ended up buying some metric rulers and tape measure. Took a little getting use to but made thing much easier to measure out, espically fret distances.

    Matt Towe said:
    The transducer is a $2.00 item from an electronics store. Here we get them at Radio Shack ( Tandy for you?) or a similar online source. You could rob one from a cheap noise making toy.
    Nut height needs to be where ever you need it to get you action where you want it. Go higher .... easy to sand down and re-groove if it's too high. Can't put it back on if it'd too low though.
    Cut a slot for the nut ... I guess you could just glue on in top, but I wouldn't.
    Bridge, same thing as nut, high, then adjust as needed .... but i would expect it will be higher than the nut.
    I'm Amurcan and I measure Amurcan ... you on your own on the mm,cm,dm and so forth.
    But here is something I found out entirely by accident.
    Type this ... 25.5 in. = ? mm ... into google and watch is amazement!

    Oh yeah ... you're thinking too much. build, play, build again, better with what you learned the first time.

    Matt
  • Jon Pruett April 24, 2010 at 10:13pm
    I've been using clear coat on everything wood or paper just to make it easier to clean up from the inevitable spill that will cross the table faster than I can scream "nooooooo!!!"
  • Outhouse Instruments April 24, 2010 at 9:42pm
    The transducer is a $2.00 item from an electronics store. Here we get them at Radio Shack ( Tandy for you?) or a similar online source. You could rob one from a cheap noise making toy.
    Nut height needs to be where ever you need it to get you action where you want it. Go higher .... easy to sand down and re-groove if it's too high. Can't put it back on if it'd too low though.
    Cut a slot for the nut ... I guess you could just glue on in top, but I wouldn't.
    Bridge, same thing as nut, high, then adjust as needed .... but i would expect it will be higher than the nut.
    I'm Amurcan and I measure Amurcan ... you on your own on the mm,cm,dm and so forth.
    But here is something I found out entirely by accident.
    Type this ... 25.5 in. = ? mm ... into google and watch is amazement!

    Oh yeah ... you're thinking too much. build, play, build again, better with what you learned the first time.

    Matt
  • Paul Doug April 24, 2010 at 8:52pm
    I use this to do my conversions makes it easy and I trust it. It says 25.5 in. comverts to 647.7mm and I believe it.
    http://www.worldwidemetric.com/measurements.html

    bolt for a nut is very easy also.

    I've use Uke turning pegs with great success. I really think you may be over working this. No rules, build it how you want and if not satisfied build another. I'm not a guitar expert, can't even play but the people I know that have played mine have been impressed with the sound so just build and enjoy.
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