Hi,
I just finnished a nylon stringed CBG for a customer of mine, and after getting the neck settings and string action just about right, tuning up and testing I thought to myself that this thing is really pretty shitty.
The box itself is an H.Upmann N0.2 box and I did a buffalo bridge and nut for the six string neck.
But the guy (a local experimental guitar player) wanted specifically nylons and intends to play slide also using this.
I would be interested if any of you folks out there have experience with nylon stringed guitars at all, and if so, would be happy to read your viewpoints on them, as I really am not too sure as to what I have done.
Don`t get me wrong, the build itself is okay, intonation and fretting is good, a clear sound, but nowhere near as good as a normal classical guitar by any means.....
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I just finished building a 4 string fretless cookie tin banjitar thingie prototype a couple of days ago (my first birth). I used some nylon strings I had lying around to test the action, bridge position, etc.
It sounded sweet in a "cuatro-ukelele" kind of ways.
It also sounded pretty low. Even lower than a cuatro. So it was a more like a play alone volume.
You certainly can do slide on it if set up correctly. But sliding on it sounds weirdly too japanese, which is not what I'm after, so I went and got me some bronce strings.. and it became a banjo. A loud banjo.
Now I can't play while my wife is watching TV on the same room.
Also, In case you didn't know nylon strings will go out of tune very quickly when new.
On my classical guitar I have to retune it a lot for the first week or so. But after that, it can stay tuned for months.
My CBGs are mostly nylon strung. I play slide and fingered on them and they sound great.
They are quiet and I generally play them amplified, although the Cyclops has been played acoustically with bass and drums and it worked (but I wouldn't be my first choice).
Cheers for the many replies, and I have found that what many of you are saying to be true indeed.
I mounted a piezzo this afternoon, which certainly hepls on the volume issue, but it just sounds naff to be honest, nothing near as good as some of the classical and flamenco guitars I have....
As mentioned, this one is for a paying customer, who wanted it this way, and I told him at the time of order that slide on nylon= duff sound. I went to the extent of ordering some buffalo bone, and filed/ sawed/ carver it all to shape for the nut and the bridge, and I am pretty certain the work I did there was fine.
So the question really is if I should give him this product, as it certainly does not hit my mark for satisfaction, which, agreed, is pretty fickle. He will be playing it for live concerts (bit of a poser this guy), and I was considering if it is such a good Idea to have my work displayed like this, as one thing is for certain, if it does not work out he will be blaming it all on the guitar, i.e. me.
I`m not really reliant on the cash from the sale either, as I have a good working day job.
I will consider this over the remainder of the weekend, as I have to dash off now to a gig in Stuttgart, and will be playing Sunday, Monday as well, using some of my instruments for these shows......
Maybe I will just invite him round to my workshop, where I have a few really fine guitars done right now, and let him try another instead...
time will tell, but the disapointment is certainly there from my side, and I really have to learn to stick to my guns at what I can or cannot do.
I'm inclined to agree with Sam. I made a nylon-stringed Uke, and it sounds fine tone-wise but it's not very loud. No doubt the very short scale length contributes to a little more string tension than you'd see on a guitar.
Nylon-stringed guitars are very lightly-constructed. Properly played, the volume can be adequate, but classical players almost always have to use amplification for anything larger than a "parlor" setting. I imagine you could experiment with neck angle...An angled neck and a raised bridge would provide a bit more tension.
Slide with nylon? Hmmmm...Not much resistance to the slide.. I hesitate to say it can't be done, but you'd think it would be rather odd... Maybe with a sensitive pickup.
OK, just some thoughts..... you can't/don't tension up nylons nearly as tight to get the same notes to play. on a relatively small and and thick top of a CBG there isn't enough energy transfer to energize the top. I ran into the same thing with PU strings on my short scale basses. almost no volume, but amp thru a piezo they sounded fine.
A classical guitar with nylon strings is a highly specialized instrument evolved over centuries. Probably not going to make a CBG sound/play like one....
I recently put nylon uke strings on a 3-string cookie tin guitar. They buzzed something awful and would never get properly into tune. Dunno why. I switched them out for steel, and now the instrument plays acceptably - rough and tinny - but much improved.
I thought the nylon would help mellow out the tinny sound. Not so, at least on this instrument.
I did make two nylon stringed guitars using oil cans a couple of years back, rather like the thru neck ones made in africa you occasionally get to see, which worked very well, sweet sounding and easy to play (used Ash wood for the thru neck),
Maybe it is the mixture of materials, I don`t know.....
I've had the same experience. Tried two builds with nylon strings and ended up converting them both to steel strings. Not sure why it doesn't work . . . .
Replies
It sounded sweet in a "cuatro-ukelele" kind of ways.
It also sounded pretty low. Even lower than a cuatro. So it was a more like a play alone volume.
You certainly can do slide on it if set up correctly. But sliding on it sounds weirdly too japanese, which is not what I'm after, so I went and got me some bronce strings.. and it became a banjo. A loud banjo.
Now I can't play while my wife is watching TV on the same room.
Also, In case you didn't know nylon strings will go out of tune very quickly when new.
On my classical guitar I have to retune it a lot for the first week or so. But after that, it can stay tuned for months.
They are quiet and I generally play them amplified, although the Cyclops has been played acoustically with bass and drums and it worked (but I wouldn't be my first choice).
I mounted a piezzo this afternoon, which certainly hepls on the volume issue, but it just sounds naff to be honest, nothing near as good as some of the classical and flamenco guitars I have....
As mentioned, this one is for a paying customer, who wanted it this way, and I told him at the time of order that slide on nylon= duff sound. I went to the extent of ordering some buffalo bone, and filed/ sawed/ carver it all to shape for the nut and the bridge, and I am pretty certain the work I did there was fine.
So the question really is if I should give him this product, as it certainly does not hit my mark for satisfaction, which, agreed, is pretty fickle. He will be playing it for live concerts (bit of a poser this guy), and I was considering if it is such a good Idea to have my work displayed like this, as one thing is for certain, if it does not work out he will be blaming it all on the guitar, i.e. me.
I`m not really reliant on the cash from the sale either, as I have a good working day job.
I will consider this over the remainder of the weekend, as I have to dash off now to a gig in Stuttgart, and will be playing Sunday, Monday as well, using some of my instruments for these shows......
Maybe I will just invite him round to my workshop, where I have a few really fine guitars done right now, and let him try another instead...
time will tell, but the disapointment is certainly there from my side, and I really have to learn to stick to my guns at what I can or cannot do.
Nylon-stringed guitars are very lightly-constructed. Properly played, the volume can be adequate, but classical players almost always have to use amplification for anything larger than a "parlor" setting. I imagine you could experiment with neck angle...An angled neck and a raised bridge would provide a bit more tension.
Slide with nylon? Hmmmm...Not much resistance to the slide.. I hesitate to say it can't be done, but you'd think it would be rather odd... Maybe with a sensitive pickup.
A classical guitar with nylon strings is a highly specialized instrument evolved over centuries. Probably not going to make a CBG sound/play like one....
the best,
Wichita Sam
I thought the nylon would help mellow out the tinny sound. Not so, at least on this instrument.
Maybe it is the mixture of materials, I don`t know.....
I will look into this further...