First successful CBD build

Posted by George Durbin on August 26, 2011 at 10:15am

My second attempt, which ended up looking rather nice and sounds great!!!  Made some goofs but not too drastic so I'm pleased with the result.  I have 4 more pictures of this build in "my photos" if anyone wants to have a peek.  Working on 2 more builds right now, (1) dulcimer and (1) guitar.  The guitar should be a hoot because I don't know how to play it!

 

 

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Replies

  • George Durbin October 13, 2011 at 8:01am

    Whoa - this is hugely weird!

    Checked the templates I had printed from FretFind and EVERY one of them is off 1 inch.  So whatever glitch is making that program compress the template is doing it consistently. 

    Now, if I can just figure out why or WHAT it is doing, I'll be doing good.

  • George Durbin October 11, 2011 at 9:26pm

    It is being opened in Adobe and I'm pulling it up with the PDF multiple page option.  And there is no doubt that it is being compressed for some reason.  The comparison between the table and the template is off starting with the first fret, so it's really screwy.

    There are a couple of things I'm going to try tomorrow when I double check some of the other scales, so we'll see where that goes...  Hopefully it's something simple that I'm overlooking.  Wish I knew a programmer to look at that code, though.

    Anyway, thanks Diane.

     

    Diane in Chicago said:

    Can you try opening the PDF file in another viewer, either Adobe or Preview? It seems to be getting scaled down to fit the page or something.
  • Diane in Chicago October 11, 2011 at 8:20pm
    Can you try opening the PDF file in another viewer, either Adobe or Preview? It seems to be getting scaled down to fit the page or something.
  • George Durbin October 11, 2011 at 6:18pm

    Just checked the table - it seems to be spot on.  Comparing the table to the printed template is another story,

    Apparently the pdf formula for this scale template is off.

    Now I'll have to check the other templates I intend to use.

  • George Durbin October 11, 2011 at 6:11pm

    Didn't check the tables - just printed out the template for a 26.5" string, since that's what I'm building.

    I'll have a looksee...

     

    Diane in Chicago said:

    When you run the program with your specs, you also get the table.  Is the table accurate and the PDF is wrong?

     

    I just ran one for 25" and the template was spot on.

     

    No rules, I think, does not include the rules of physics.  Those you can't ignore.

     

    George Durbin said:

    Okay, now I have a dilemma......

    Due to questions about 12th fret spacing being off on my current build, I ran my fret calculators again.  The FretFind2D gave me the same template that I was using and checking that template revealed that the 12th fret is indeed not equidistant from nut and bridge.

    Ran the same scale thru the WFret program and it printed out a template that is indeed 12th fret accurate. 

    I realize that this is "cigar box" and that there are no rules - if it sounds good, then rock it! - but I would think that intonation should be a close to "standard" as possible.  Or am I over-thinking this?

    Has anybody else run into this issue or have a problem with the FretFind calculator??

    And, does anybody know who's site it is, so I can contact him/her/them with my dilemma..??

    thanx,

    George

     

  • Diane in Chicago October 11, 2011 at 6:00pm

    When you run the program with your specs, you also get the table.  Is the table accurate and the PDF is wrong?

     

    I just ran one for 25" and the template was spot on.

     

    No rules, I think, does not include the rules of physics.  Those you can't ignore.

     

    George Durbin said:

    Okay, now I have a dilemma......

    Due to questions about 12th fret spacing being off on my current build, I ran my fret calculators again.  The FretFind2D gave me the same template that I was using and checking that template revealed that the 12th fret is indeed not equidistant from nut and bridge.

    Ran the same scale thru the WFret program and it printed out a template that is indeed 12th fret accurate. 

    I realize that this is "cigar box" and that there are no rules - if it sounds good, then rock it! - but I would think that intonation should be a close to "standard" as possible.  Or am I over-thinking this?

    Has anybody else run into this issue or have a problem with the FretFind calculator??

    And, does anybody know who's site it is, so I can contact him/her/them with my dilemma..??

    thanx,

    George

     

  • George Durbin October 11, 2011 at 5:23pm

    Okay, now I have a dilemma......

    Due to questions about 12th fret spacing being off on my current build, I ran my fret calculators again.  The FretFind2D gave me the same template that I was using and checking that template revealed that the 12th fret is indeed not equidistant from nut and bridge.

    Ran the same scale thru the WFret program and it printed out a template that is indeed 12th fret accurate. 

    I realize that this is "cigar box" and that there are no rules - if it sounds good, then rock it! - but I would think that intonation should be a close to "standard" as possible.  Or am I over-thinking this?

    Has anybody else run into this issue or have a problem with the FretFind calculator??

    And, does anybody know who's site it is, so I can contact him/her/them with my dilemma..??

    thanx,

    George

     



    George Durbin said:

    Hi Diane,

    That's what I thought, which is why I made that comment/suggestion and I use that same fret calculator (FretFind2D) that you posted the link to.

    However, just yesterday I discovered that the guitar I'm working on sounded "off", so I checked the 12th fret from nut and bridge and it's off 1/2 inch.  I used my template (26.5") with the extra frets worked in and since it was off, I figured that those extra frets messed up the spacing.

    I'm going to experiment with that program to see what's up.  I've made a dozen different templates to have on hand in the shop and now I'll have to double check each one,

    I'm glad I'm not using exotic (expensive) wood for these builds (:>

     

     

    Diane in Chicago said:

    Wait!  If including a larger number of frets in your fret calculator (while leaving the scale constant) changes the position of your 12th fret, there is something wrong with your fret calculator.  It does not matter how many frets you include, the only thing that matters is the placement of however many you choose to utilize.  The 12th, the 24th and even the 36th are where they are, no matter if you include them or not.  For example a scale of 24", the 12 is at 12" and the 24th is at 18" and the 36th is at 21", even if they are only in your imagination.

     

    I use this fret calculator that prints a template.  I find it easier to get an accurate marking that way. 

    http://cigarboxguitars.com/fretfind/standard.php

     

     

     

    George Durbin said:

    Correction - Clarification!!!! 

    As a newbie builder, I presented a "tip" for laying out fret placement which can mess up your build.

    I said that when I do my fret layout, I have the fret program add "extra" frets even if I know I won't be using them.  Just discovered that this strategy can have some really undesirable consequences.  By adding the extra frets to the template, it decreases the fret spacing and if you just quit marking that placement, the whole scale will be off.  So the correct way to do the layout is figure out how many frets you want/need and THEN do the layout template (if you use a template as I do).

    So to Jeff (and anybody else who might have tried this), I apologize for the misleading info.  I discovered this error on the guitar I'm building when I checked the 12th fret spacing and it was off 1/2 inch!!  No wonder it sounded strange!  Now I have to completely re-do the neck.

  • George Durbin October 11, 2011 at 9:50am

    Hi Diane,

    That's what I thought, which is why I made that comment/suggestion and I use that same fret calculator (FretFind2D) that you posted the link to.

    However, just yesterday I discovered that the guitar I'm working on sounded "off", so I checked the 12th fret from nut and bridge and it's off 1/2 inch.  I used my template (26.5") with the extra frets worked in and since it was off, I figured that those extra frets messed up the spacing.

    I'm going to experiment with that program to see what's up.  I've made a dozen different templates to have on hand in the shop and now I'll have to double check each one,

    I'm glad I'm not using exotic (expensive) wood for these builds (:>

     

     

    Diane in Chicago said:

    Wait!  If including a larger number of frets in your fret calculator (while leaving the scale constant) changes the position of your 12th fret, there is something wrong with your fret calculator.  It does not matter how many frets you include, the only thing that matters is the placement of however many you choose to utilize.  The 12th, the 24th and even the 36th are where they are, no matter if you include them or not.  For example a scale of 24", the 12 is at 12" and the 24th is at 18" and the 36th is at 21", even if they are only in your imagination.

     

    I use this fret calculator that prints a template.  I find it easier to get an accurate marking that way. 

    http://cigarboxguitars.com/fretfind/standard.php

     

     

     

    George Durbin said:

    Correction - Clarification!!!! 

    As a newbie builder, I presented a "tip" for laying out fret placement which can mess up your build.

    I said that when I do my fret layout, I have the fret program add "extra" frets even if I know I won't be using them.  Just discovered that this strategy can have some really undesirable consequences.  By adding the extra frets to the template, it decreases the fret spacing and if you just quit marking that placement, the whole scale will be off.  So the correct way to do the layout is figure out how many frets you want/need and THEN do the layout template (if you use a template as I do).

    So to Jeff (and anybody else who might have tried this), I apologize for the misleading info.  I discovered this error on the guitar I'm building when I checked the 12th fret spacing and it was off 1/2 inch!!  No wonder it sounded strange!  Now I have to completely re-do the neck.

  • Diane in Chicago October 11, 2011 at 8:29am

    Wait!  If including a larger number of frets in your fret calculator (while leaving the scale constant) changes the position of your 12th fret, there is something wrong with your fret calculator.  It does not matter how many frets you include, the only thing that matters is the placement of however many you choose to utilize.  The 12th, the 24th and even the 36th are where they are, no matter if you include them or not.  For example a scale of 24", the 12 is at 12" and the 24th is at 18" and the 36th is at 21", even if they are only in your imagination.

     

    I use this fret calculator that prints a template.  I find it easier to get an accurate marking that way. 

    http://cigarboxguitars.com/fretfind/standard.php

     

     

     

    George Durbin said:

    Correction - Clarification!!!! 

    As a newbie builder, I presented a "tip" for laying out fret placement which can mess up your build.

    I said that when I do my fret layout, I have the fret program add "extra" frets even if I know I won't be using them.  Just discovered that this strategy can have some really undesirable consequences.  By adding the extra frets to the template, it decreases the fret spacing and if you just quit marking that placement, the whole scale will be off.  So the correct way to do the layout is figure out how many frets you want/need and THEN do the layout template (if you use a template as I do).

    So to Jeff (and anybody else who might have tried this), I apologize for the misleading info.  I discovered this error on the guitar I'm building when I checked the 12th fret spacing and it was off 1/2 inch!!  No wonder it sounded strange!  Now I have to completely re-do the neck.

  • George Durbin October 11, 2011 at 7:43am

    Correction - Clarification!!!! 

    As a newbie builder, I presented a "tip" for laying out fret placement which can mess up your build.

    I said that when I do my fret layout, I have the fret program add "extra" frets even if I know I won't be using them.  Just discovered that this strategy can have some really undesirable consequences.  By adding the extra frets to the template, it decreases the fret spacing and if you just quit marking that placement, the whole scale will be off.  So the correct way to do the layout is figure out how many frets you want/need and THEN do the layout template (if you use a template as I do).

    So to Jeff (and anybody else who might have tried this), I apologize for the misleading info.  I discovered this error on the guitar I'm building when I checked the 12th fret spacing and it was off 1/2 inch!!  No wonder it sounded strange!  Now I have to completely re-do the neck.


    George Durbin said:

    Hey Jeff -

    Can't remember what the scale is on this one (and I don't have it here now to check), but I believe it's 25.5". 

    What I do when I layout my scale template is to have MANY more fret positions than I need and simply stop marking them when I get to the point on the fingerboard that I want.  For instance, when I run the fret calculation program, I will indicate 21 (or 25 or 27)  frets even if I know I won't use them.

    So far, I have 2 completed dulcimers (need to get a pic of the 2nd and post it) and the other one has a 24" scale. I'm still a newbie at this craft, so I can only relate what has worked for me and there are scads of people hereabouts who are ready and able to help you get started right.

    I am working on a 24" CB guitar right now and am building a CB amp to go with it. The guitar is harder for me since I don't know how to play it but hey! that's what it's all about.

    One thing to remember when extending the fretboard over the sound box (like I did on this one) is keeping enough room between that last fret and the bridge so that you have space to strum.  I didn't have any problem with this one because the Chateau box is l-o-n-g but my other build wouldn't work out the same because the cigar box is shorter.

    The BIG thing to remember about cigar box builds - is that there are virtually no rules (beyond scale parameters).  If you browse thru the pics & posts and look at what everybody is building, you'll notice that pretty much anything goes! If you want to do something or try for a special look, go for it.  Like "they" keep saying, there are no rules!

    And that is what I love about doing this!

    Good luck and start building 'em.

     

    Jeff Lamer said:

    Love your design George, Just starting my first build shortly and your design is what I am trying to accomplish. I am trying to get my head around the length of Neck. I want the fret board to extend onto the box like yours. What scales length did you use? I get confused as to how the last fret ends up at the box exactly. I also see you used 14 frets so am I correct to assume the half notes....learning as I go..lol.

    Thanks

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