Two basic questions

Posted by Eli Spiegelman on February 11, 2010 at 3:35pm
First, what is this funky, irregular fret spacing that I see on some builds around here? It seems to me the captions often have "dulci-"something in them. Is it a dulcimer fretting? How does it work?

Second, does anyone have any tips for inserting fret markers? What kinds of materials/tools do you use?

Thanks,

Eli

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Replies

  • Eli Spiegelman February 13, 2010 at 5:28pm
    Wow, what a lot of good advice! Thanks!

    And thanks for the link to the dulcimer discussion. Partial frets sound pretty far-out. I guess they only go part way across the neck? Don't sitars have adjustable frets? That might be a good way to try out different things.

    Thanks again,

    Eli
  • Diane in Chicago February 13, 2010 at 9:52am
    One more thing: I use the Dremel drill bits for this precision sort of work. The 1/4" comes in the larger drill set, and is a brad point, which is good enough. You get a little well in the bottom of the hole that is good for the glue to sit it. You can dry-fit the dots easily, so you don't drill them too shallow. If you go too deep, you can just use a tad more glue, and tap flush. Not been a problem for me so far.

    The 1/8" bit is not a brad point but still works fine. Just be sure to press in a really good sized pilot hole with a awl so the drill doesn't travel. Those 1/8" holes go in really fast -- watch out! the dots are a snug fit, so dry fitting can be a bit hard to do. I've had to pry them out with a pin.

    Diane in Chicago said:
    I put them in with gel super glue, just a dot in the bottom of the hole. Then slide the marker over and lay it on top of the hole, crooked or not. HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART: use a credit card or business card to tap it down until it is flush with the top of the fingerboard. If you use your big lummox-y fingers, you'll surely get it in crooked and ooze glue all over the place. Once it is flush go make coffee and come back later.

    You can use a 1/8' hole punch and make markers for the side of the neck as well, and here the buisness card comes in really handy again. I use the point to push the marker over to the hole and the flat side to tap it flush.

    And I am not the originator of the guitar pick position markers idea, I don't remember where I got it. Must have been at the Yahoo CIGARBOXGUITARBUILDERS group.


    Eli Spiegelman said:
    That makes sense. Although, if I'm epoxy-ing them in, wouldn't the glue just fill the bottom of a round divot?

    And thanks (I believe) to Diane in Chicago! A god(dess) among (mostly) men. ; - )

    Eli

    Wichita Sam said:
    Eli,
    You need to use a "flat bottomed" bit like a brad point or a fostner bit... That leaves a flat surface for the dot to adhere to.... BTW, I believe that the first person to pass along the "paper punch to make position markers out of thin guitar picks" idea was Diane in Chicago. She shared that with the CigarBoxGuitarBuilders yahoo group well over 1 1/2 years ago....
    the best,

    Wichita Sam

    blockquote>
  • Diane in Chicago February 13, 2010 at 9:23am
    Here is more information about dulcimer fretting than you probably want:

    http://www.cigarboxnation.com/group/dulciworld/forum/topics/fret-sp...

    I am now working on a pentatonic (only the black keys on the piano) instrument, tuned 1 5 5, or DAA or something like that. It will have partial frets. It is making my head spin, but could end up very cool with that glorious Eastern Music sound. Cool old tin with a crane on it -- how could I resist?

    Fergus Morris said:
    It is dulcimer fretting. This is where frets in the normal sequence are removed so that when you play them in sequence up the neck you get a major scale (do-ray-me etc, or the white keys on a piano). This makes it really easy to play a lot of folky melodies using just the first string but also makes the instrument limited to playing in one major key unless you retune. I've made one and it is one of the most fun things to play that I have, you can also experiment with putting capos at various points and using modes and other fun stuff like that. Or of course you could make one where the frets are positioned in a different scale like a minor one or a blues one.
  • Diane in Chicago February 13, 2010 at 9:18am
    I put them in with gel super glue, just a dot in the bottom of the hole. Then slide the marker over and lay it on top of the hole, crooked or not. HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART: use a credit card or business card to tap it down until it is flush with the top of the fingerboard. If you use your big lummox-y fingers, you'll surely get it in crooked and ooze glue all over the place. Once it is flush go make coffee and come back later.

    You can use a 1/8' hole punch and make markers for the side of the neck as well, and here the buisness card comes in really handy again. I use the point to push the marker over to the hole and the flat side to tap it flush.

    And I am not the originator of the guitar pick position markers idea, I don't remember where I got it. Must have been at the Yahoo CIGARBOXGUITARBUILDERS group.


    Eli Spiegelman said:
    That makes sense. Although, if I'm epoxy-ing them in, wouldn't the glue just fill the bottom of a round divot?

    And thanks (I believe) to Diane in Chicago! A god(dess) among (mostly) men. ; - )

    Eli

    Wichita Sam said:
    Eli,
    You need to use a "flat bottomed" bit like a brad point or a fostner bit... That leaves a flat surface for the dot to adhere to.... BTW, I believe that the first person to pass along the "paper punch to make position markers out of thin guitar picks" idea was Diane in Chicago. She shared that with the CigarBoxGuitarBuilders yahoo group well over 1 1/2 years ago....
    the best,

    Wichita Sam

    blockquote>
  • Wichita Sam February 13, 2010 at 8:55am
    no problem.... two years ago I was asking a lot of questions for which the answer was "obvious" to old timers....

    Eli Spiegelman said:
    Fair enough. Flat bit it is. Thanks for putting up with my obnoxious questions!

    Eli
  • Eli Spiegelman February 12, 2010 at 10:54pm
    Fair enough. Flat bit it is. Thanks for putting up with my obnoxious questions!

    Eli
  • Wichita Sam February 12, 2010 at 7:53pm
    Liquid CA or epoxy is slippery and less than a flat bottom hole can have your dot settle in crooked....

    Eli Spiegelman said:
    That makes sense. Although, if I'm epoxy-ing them in, wouldn't the glue just fill the bottom of a round divot?

    And thanks (I believe) to Diane in Chicago! A god(dess) among (mostly) men. ; - )

    Eli

    Wichita Sam said:
    Eli,
    You need to use a "flat bottomed" bit like a brad point or a fostner bit... That leaves a flat surface for the dot to adhere to.... BTW, I believe that the first person to pass along the "paper punch to make position markers out of thin guitar picks" idea was Diane in Chicago. She shared that with the CigarBoxGuitarBuilders yahoo group well over 1 1/2 years ago....
    the best,

    Wichita Sam

    blockquote>
  • Eli Spiegelman February 12, 2010 at 3:33pm
    That makes sense. Although, if I'm epoxy-ing them in, wouldn't the glue just fill the bottom of a round divot?

    And thanks (I believe) to Diane in Chicago! A god(dess) among (mostly) men. ; - )

    Eli

    Wichita Sam said:
    Eli,
    You need to use a "flat bottomed" bit like a brad point or a fostner bit... That leaves a flat surface for the dot to adhere to.... BTW, I believe that the first person to pass along the "paper punch to make position markers out of thin guitar picks" idea was Diane in Chicago. She shared that with the CigarBoxGuitarBuilders yahoo group well over 1 1/2 years ago....
    the best,

    Wichita Sam

    blockquote>
  • Wichita Sam February 12, 2010 at 10:21am
    Eli,

    You need to use a "flat bottomed" bit like a brad point or a fostner bit... That leaves a flat surface for the dot to adhere to.... BTW, I believe that the first person to pass along the "paper punch to make position markers out of thin guitar picks" idea was Diane in Chicago. She shared that with the CigarBoxGuitarBuilders yahoo group well over 1 1/2 years ago....

    the best,

    Wichita Sam

    Eli Spiegelman said:
    The hole-punch idea is brilliant, thanks! Is there any particular reason one could not use a regular 1/4" bit to make the holes?

    Thanks again!

    Eli

    Wes Yates said:
    Diatonic fretting. Its mostly used on dulcimers like Fergus says.

    I have a great one (fret markers) take a 1/4" paper punch and cut out some heavy thickness celluloid pick (they're easier to punch than other plastics). Using a 1/4" forstner bit, cut holes in the neck the thickness of the pick. Inlay the pick pieces into the holes. Voila!

    My Cohiba

    -WY
  • Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates February 12, 2010 at 10:03am
    Unfortunately not my original idea. Check out Secrets of the CBG Underground group for more.

    -WY

    Eli Spiegelman said:
    The hole-punch idea is brilliant, thanks! Is there any particular reason one could not use a regular 1/4" bit to make the holes?
    Thanks again!
    Eli

    Wes Yates said:
    Diatonic fretting. Its mostly used on dulcimers like Fergus says.

    I have a great one (fret markers) take a 1/4" paper punch and cut out some heavy thickness celluloid pick (they're easier to punch than other plastics). Using a 1/4" forstner bit, cut holes in the neck the thickness of the pick. Inlay the pick pieces into the holes. Voila!My Cohiba

    -WY
This reply was deleted.