Acoustic Expectations

Michael Recchione July 8, 2013 at 1:36pm

I've been on the same holy grail of making them louder unplugged.

Some things that might help:

1) Top: As others have said, thinner is better for the top. If you're making your own box, why not use a decent wood top? I don't know who the suppliers are in Oz, but here in The States, you can get a nice quality Western Red Cedar or Sitka Spruce classical guitar top set for not much money, from Steward-MacDonald. One set should be good for 2-4 CBGs, depending on how big you make them. I recently used one half of a Western Red Cedar set for the top of an Anglo-Saxon Lyre, and even with nylon strings and no sound hole at all, that thing is LOUD. The trick is to thin the wood, particularly at the sides, where the top meets the sides of the box. I also thin the tops of cigar boxes, doing it on the inside, where it doesn't show. It helps (me) to test with a tuning fork as I go, to make sure things are getting better.

Another thing about the top of a CBG intended to be played unplugged is to keep most of the junk off it - that means really avoiding all the heavy brass hardware that the electric guitars are decorated with.

2) Box size: All other things being equal, bigger is louder (up to a point). If you're making your own box, why not experiment with making it bigger?

3) Sound holes. There's an urban legend that talks about the ideal sound hole size for maximum loudness based on Helmholtz resonance, but other than people spreading what they'd heard or read somewhere on the internet, I couldn't find a real reference. And some other people, more experienced and expert than I, also tried and failed to find the reference. That said, getting the right sized sound-hole is important for loudness, and placing it where it does the most good is also important, so that it doesn't take away too much of the top material. I'd start small, in the upper left hand corner of the top (when you're looking at the top of the guitar standing neck up), then enlarge it little by little as it keeps getting louder, until it starts getting softer again. Then you can decorate the hole with something to bring the diameter back to the sweet spot (or, if you've been making really small changes, learning to live with it being just past the optimal point. I haven't tried a sound port on the upper side yet, but that's something I want to experiment with - it may be the best of all worlds, maybe with some kind of baffle to direct the sound forward ... maybe.

4) Strings. Thick is better than thin for loudness. Tight is better than loose. This argues that, for any instrument that you're going to actually finger (versus playing exclusively with a slide), having a nice low action is important. But that's not a bad thing in any case. If you're aiming for a lot of bending strings, you're basically talking an electric, anyway.

5) Double or triple courses of strings, tuned in unison or in octaves. This might not be your cup of tea, but it's a time-honored way to make an acoustic instrument louder.

Downtown Vinnie July 6, 2013 at 11:47am

Wood,wood,wood,Sometimes,it is all about the box...Sometimes you need more holes for lesser boxes.I have had good experiences w building,But I guess its thin to win .Best comment ever heard about CBGs on here is that the best build is bordering on destruction.

I like both electric and accoustic,But I have mostly discarded playing cbgs w/ a pick because I dont like the tone as much.o play 20 ,you'll notice each one speaks differently,they are each as different individually,as the people here....good luck in yer quest.

Clarky July 5, 2013 at 6:24am

Argh I just started a similar discussion before I saw this, oh well. I agree about the Roland Cube, small, versatile, portable, sturdy, you can't go wrong.

Slowpaw Steve T July 5, 2013 at 1:45am

Agree with all that's been said, i noticed the guitar in your photo is quite small - the rule is simple, big box big sound small box small sound acoustically....but with a pickup and amp you can get a great uncoloured sound from a small flat box, though a good acoustic sound can be obtained from a small sturdy box if it is built correctly like Chickenbone John suggests, a reasonably good sound can come out of it... btw anyone tried his amazing reso cones? (-;

ChickenboneJohn July 5, 2013 at 1:24am

Here's another example...some proper music played acoustically ....this is how they can sound ...

By the way...fingerpicks or plectrum are not necessary - you can get volume that way, but ....this video and my example are picked pretty gently...

ChickenboneJohn July 5, 2013 at 12:58am

If your expectations are for a similar acoustic volume to a uke, then I reckon that's fair. for home strumming and picking acoustic should be OK, although you'd get swamped if you played along with someone with a regular acoustic guitar.

Here's an example of me doing a video lesson, just playing acoustically to the webcam - this is pretty typical of the volume I'd expect from a decent cigarbox guitar. It's difficult to judge, but you can compare it against my usual speaking voice.

However, my observations are that there are a lot of people "jumping on the bandwagon" selling cigar box guitars both as makers and retailers, and there's a lot of sub-standard stuff around...I reckon you got unlucky. People think they are going to make money from this scene..but here's my take on things..and it's down to money. If you buy something from a shop at say £90, the shop will be putting 100% markup AND VAT at 20% on it..that means they will be paying £40 max. for it. You really have to ask what do you expect at that sort of base price..using the classic business model of 1/3 materials, 1/3 labour, 1/3 profit..you've probably got 15 quidsworth worth of experience right there with your guitar. I apologise if the maker of he guitar is reading this and takes exception, but I am a firm believer of asking a fair price in the marketplace, and not undervaluing your skills.

Music shops are generally totally ignorant about these instruments - they don't know the scene and don't research what's out there. I've been asked several times to seeo to music shops, but normally I won't sell to them because I can't afford to give a wholesale discount, and 100% mark-up plus tax would push the price up ridiculously, and I cant see any reason why a retailer should make all twice as much profit as I do for having it sat in their window.

Sorry to go on about this, and this isn't meant to be a "puff" for my guitars, but just my observations based on several years experience in this line of work.

Because of the body size, cigar box guitars are always going to be modestly voiced acoustically, but with skill, experience and a bit of luck, they can be made to put out a reasonable acoustic sound.

Jeff McFadden > ChickenboneJohn July 5, 2013 at 7:54am

@ Chickenbone John I wish you'd do a video where you play Trouble in Mind straight through and then demonstrate some of those licks and the progression. If you get the chance.
Jeff McFadden > ChickenboneJohn July 5, 2013 at 7:53am

^ What Chickenbone John said. Anybody who want to sell these would be better served to sell his / her own and leave out the middleman. There's just not that much room in them when you figure the price of an Asian-made full-size six string.
stringybark > ChickenboneJohn July 5, 2013 at 5:56am

Thank you Mr ChickenboneJohn, that was great, I have just finish my first slide cbg, (and learnt from my mistakes), I made it electric and am sourcing something to plug it into to try it out....this is cbg is adictive...I figure at my age I am to old for skydiving..cant afford drugs (LOL) , but I acan still pester those close by with this. One BIG mistaKe I made, I built my own cigar BOX, as they are hard and expensive to come by, I built most the box out of 3ply but put an coaster on the top(mostly I wanted an 'australiana" themeand it had a bush picture of it) but it EATS the sound up because it is cork backed..lucky that it is electric. I had to start somewhere and they say you learn by making mistakes. (I figure I must be up there in knowing a couple of things because I make LOTS of mistakes LOL) cheers and thanks for posting..Am learning lots form this site...a priveledge to be part of it.thanks again..PS will be changing my profile picture to show the cbg.
Jeff McFadden > stringybark July 5, 2013 at 7:59am

@Stringybark, your profile doesn't give a hint where you live, but Kansas City, the closest big city to me, has a dozen or so cigar stores. I just did a Google Maps search on the term Cigar Store and then called them all to see who had cigar boxes for sale. Most didn't but a couple did. I go by there every so often and buy up a couple trash bags full, use the smaller ones for parts boxes, middle sized ones for amps and the bigger ones for guitars.

Build a Cigar Box Guitar 101

Acoustic Expectations

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