What are the best materials for my first build?
Ahhhh that word best,,, it's in every forum from growing flowers to building home built airplanes. For most first builds of anything, we want to use the "best" of materials to do our worst first build. I have seen master builders take the worst of materials and create some works of art. And beginners buy the best of materials to make mistakes and blunders with on their first build. I am guilty of the second. I have seen this observation in the different hobbies I have been in, wood working, taxidermy, CBG building, and now, "real" guitar building. (LOL) Folks just starting out will ask for advice on the "best" of this or the "best" of that to start out with, and we all say it, and all want the best advice for the best materials. Maybe the word has different meanings to the user of it. However, for this site, it cracks me up to see some people seeking super high expectations out of a cigar box, stick and strings. Words slung around here like sustain, ohms of pickup output, neck angle, 250 or 500 pots, shielding, winding wire size, and other technical guitar terms are creeping into the CBG tech area. I understand that there are those that want to put more horse power under the hood, and the coolness factor, I get it. I understand that.
I can see using the best of materials once you have some building skills in your bag of tricks, but for starting out on the first one, we really do not need the best of this or the best of that. Mini rant over.
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Depends on who is defininf "art". The old CBS are works of "art" to me and they didn't have the tools we have today. They are all great!
StarGeezers said:
There is a certain implied MOJO by using the more "primitive" parts... our rule is "Use watcha' Got!!!"... Just finished my first one (NOOB) ... didn't have to buy ANYTHING... Trying to keep it in the "Spirit" of the thing rather than take it to an Art object... I'm guessing that will come later ...???
There is a certain implied MOJO by using the more "primitive" parts... our rule is "Use watcha' Got!!!"... Just finished my first one (NOOB) ... didn't have to buy ANYTHING... Trying to keep it in the "Spirit" of the thing rather than take it to an Art object... I'm guessing that will come later ...???
I find that folks here in the "nation" are extremely complementary -- to the point that even my first build got some kind words. The neck and headstock looked rather crappy in comparison to my later attempts. You build, you learn. Even some of the best looking CBGs can sound "off". There are no guarantees, but then again, that's half the fun. New builders, have fun. Really. Its an adventure. So what if it looks like this:
(I kinda like this box myself. Its real and traditional.) If it holds a tune, you're doing fine.
We've kicked this ball around in a few postings lately, "Why izzit?" and my own "How do I..." posts argued about and poked a little fun at the people that ask the same questions over and over before they make the first sawdust. I'm always game for pokin a little fun...even at myself but, before I was a veteran of 5 builds and 6 whole months of CBG'ing, I was a new guy looking for answers.
I do things a little different, I read, read, read...look at pics, and read some more. I don't ask alot, mainly because I don't want anyone to know how JACKED-UP my thought process is at the time. It didn't take me long to get those first pictures up when it turned out good though.
On "Who wants to be a Millionaire" one of the lifelines is the old "audience poll", I think asking whats best is kinda like that poll....even in a group like this that thrives and insists on individuality and doing something different, we all want the assurance that we're doing it the way everyone else does. That's just a part of human nature and our need for acceptance. The old "long tooth veterans" do the same thing in a different way....here's a pic of what I just built....
In the beginning we don't even know how to ask for the information we need....out comes one of those "how do I do it Bestest" questions.
I'll answer those every chance I get. Somebody else will have to take a turn if the same question pops up 14 times...those questions are alot like these rants of late, nobody made me click that link...so I can't blame the guy that posted it.
You guys are gonna break me $.02 at a time, I've spent my whole allowance on opinion this week...:)
I don't really want to be "self promoting" but my take on CBG guitar building is fairly well representinted in the tutorial i have under the "Plans" tab on the main page.
I wanted a rock solid plan, set out to the "mm" and nobody offered one so I went out on a journey to do my own thing.
At most stages of the build i had to make decisions, so off i went to the forum and got some great answers. So i share with you in the plan process, some of my decisions and dilemmas and if you cant make up your mind I then tell you what to do.
We all like directions, rules, the 10 Commandments etc.
I used to teach management at one stage in my career and when we set our managers a management task and said there were "no rules" they fell apart.
"No Rules" separates the men from the boys. Its hard to get through CBG puberty, but when you are there you can be part of producing over 1000 pictures of innovative, beautiful, bad looking but good sounding cbgs etc etc. Then we are all happy.
As a relative newbie here myself I fully understand the "best" questions. Yes, just about anything goes and experimentation is key in making instruments like this, but, to encourage a newbie wouldn't we want his first steps into this realm to produce a good playable instrument?
Many here have never even played a guitar or if we have it was 20 years ago. We would do well with some basic "best" info to at least give them an instrument that will produce reasonable best results. If one has never played and is going to learn they probably would want to know if a fretless slide, or fretted style is a good start. How about three strings or four and what is a good tuning to start to learn on. Is there a minimum box size that will get a decent sound, is an all wood box all one can use or will a cardboard one produce a reasonable sound? While there is no "best" we want a newbie to produce a first guitar than encourages, rather than discourages their progress.
For some, any first instruments faults will serve to motivate them on to the next, but if unplayable, or too difficult to learn on it may stop them dead in their tracks.
My path had me buying an inexpensive, but really well made fretless 3 string on ebay to learn on as I gather materials for a primitive rat rod that will look the way I want. I am going to be away from my shop for a few weeks and didn't want to wait until then to build a CBG, so went with ready made just to know I had a workable tool to learn the basics on. Shane's latest "How To Play" is a great start to at least get me making sound. The only thing I would add is having him walk a newbie through a basic blues tune just so one could sit back and say "well, I played something anyway". having one under your belt goes a long way to wanting to learn more.
Like the idea of the marital Brownie points! A bunch of flowers works better in my house than a tune on the GBG. I often try her with "Jeannie with the light brown hair" All romantic like (her name is Jean) But the bunch of flowers goes best! I wonder why?
To get back to "best". We all want to create acceptable and decent CBGs, it is in us not to want to look foolish or useless. So as part of our homework we look for those things ( ie the best) that will increase our chances of at least some degree of "success and or acceptance"
We can argue about Shane being the "best" exponent of CBG currently, but just look at that "terrible looking" CBG he is playing in his recent videos. Some might say "I would not be seen dead with a CBG like that". As for me, i would not care if I played a bunch of firewood if i could play like him! Who cares about packaging except for the "marketing people" in our society.
Hmm, I guess I didn't make myself clear: I was trying to articulate reasons why some new builders are asking for advice about the "best" (material, plan, box, etc.). I think such questions are often driven by fears like those I articulated. As it happens, I'm cantankerous / determined / bullheaded enough that those fears aren't keeping me from building. I *have* avoided some trickier technique to date (scarf necks, for instance) because I wanted to get a few builds under my belt, and save up the marital brownie points for some tools. ;)
You can build a perfectly acceptable CBG that will play some nice blues/folk/rock/gospel... etc. with off the shelf materials from Lowes, Home Depot, etc, plus the cheapest strings you can buy, some recycle tuners from your local guitar repair guy's scrap box and a couple of bolts for bridge and nut.....and any cigar box you can get your hands on (I'd recommend a minimum 5 X 8 X 1 1/2 but have build playable CBGs under these minimums)
Beyond this, relax and learn as you go. The more you build, the more you will develop an intuitive sense about what to do to get a certain sound. The more you move away from an acoustic instrument, the less important box size, etc. is and the more important the setup of your electronic compoenents are.....
Just have fun, ask questions, those who want to help will, but... in the long run you're going to have to convince yourself that any of the advice you get was good or not by... building....
the best,
Wichita SAm
Hmm, I guess I didn't make myself clear: I was trying to articulate reasons why some new builders are asking for advice about the "best" (material, plan, box, etc.). I think such questions are often driven by fears like those I articulated. As it happens, I'm cantankerous / determined / bullheaded enough that those fears aren't keeping me from building. I *have* avoided some trickier technique to date (scarf necks, for instance) because I wanted to get a few builds under my belt, and save up the marital brownie points for some tools. ;)
You can build a perfectly acceptable CBG that will play some nice blues/folk/rock/gospel... etc. with off the shelf materials from Lowes, Home Depot, etc, plus the cheapest strings you can buy, some recycle tuners from your local guitar repair guy's scrap box and a couple of bolts for bridge and nut.....and any cigar box you can get your hands on (I'd recommend a minimum 5 X 8 X 1 1/2 but have build playable CBGs under these minimums)
Beyond this, relax and learn as you go. The more you build, the more you will develop an intuitive sense about what to do to get a certain sound. The more you move away from an acoustic instrument, the less important box size, etc. is and the more important the setup of your electronic compoenents are.....
Just have fun, ask questions, those who want to help will, but... in the long run you're going to have to convince yourself that any of the advice you get was good or not by... building....
the best,
Wichita SAm
Tres Seaver said:
As a semi-newbie here, I think the question can be mapped onto a couple of concerns:
If I go down to HD / Lowes / TruValue and spend money, will I feel I have wasted it when the project is done?
If I try using something unusual, will it break the design? If so, do I have the skills / tools to fix it?
Will people laugh at my POS when I'm done?
Not everybody gets a rush from the "oh $#17" moment, even knowing that it may lead (after some agony) to "Aha!".
Maybe the best thing we can do is to articulate the ethic / aesthetic ("No rules, its OK to make mistakes, we'll help you fix it if we can") and then offer as much positive encouragement as possible to "just start making sawdust."
Replies
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
StarGeezers said:
my first build got some kind words. The neck and headstock looked rather crappy in comparison to my later attempts. You build, you learn. Even some of the best looking CBGs can sound "off". There are no guarantees, but then again, that's half the fun. New builders, have fun. Really. Its an adventure. So what if it looks like this:
(I kinda like this box myself. Its real and traditional.) If it holds a tune, you're doing fine.I do things a little different, I read, read, read...look at pics, and read some more. I don't ask alot, mainly because I don't want anyone to know how JACKED-UP my thought process is at the time. It didn't take me long to get those first pictures up when it turned out good though.
On "Who wants to be a Millionaire" one of the lifelines is the old "audience poll", I think asking whats best is kinda like that poll....even in a group like this that thrives and insists on individuality and doing something different, we all want the assurance that we're doing it the way everyone else does. That's just a part of human nature and our need for acceptance. The old "long tooth veterans" do the same thing in a different way....here's a pic of what I just built....
In the beginning we don't even know how to ask for the information we need....out comes one of those "how do I do it Bestest" questions.
I'll answer those every chance I get. Somebody else will have to take a turn if the same question pops up 14 times...those questions are alot like these rants of late, nobody made me click that link...so I can't blame the guy that posted it.
You guys are gonna break me $.02 at a time, I've spent my whole allowance on opinion this week...:)
I wanted a rock solid plan, set out to the "mm" and nobody offered one so I went out on a journey to do my own thing.
At most stages of the build i had to make decisions, so off i went to the forum and got some great answers. So i share with you in the plan process, some of my decisions and dilemmas and if you cant make up your mind I then tell you what to do.
We all like directions, rules, the 10 Commandments etc.
I used to teach management at one stage in my career and when we set our managers a management task and said there were "no rules" they fell apart.
"No Rules" separates the men from the boys. Its hard to get through CBG puberty, but when you are there you can be part of producing over 1000 pictures of innovative, beautiful, bad looking but good sounding cbgs etc etc. Then we are all happy.
Many here have never even played a guitar or if we have it was 20 years ago. We would do well with some basic "best" info to at least give them an instrument that will produce reasonable best results. If one has never played and is going to learn they probably would want to know if a fretless slide, or fretted style is a good start. How about three strings or four and what is a good tuning to start to learn on. Is there a minimum box size that will get a decent sound, is an all wood box all one can use or will a cardboard one produce a reasonable sound? While there is no "best" we want a newbie to produce a first guitar than encourages, rather than discourages their progress.
For some, any first instruments faults will serve to motivate them on to the next, but if unplayable, or too difficult to learn on it may stop them dead in their tracks.
My path had me buying an inexpensive, but really well made fretless 3 string on ebay to learn on as I gather materials for a primitive rat rod that will look the way I want. I am going to be away from my shop for a few weeks and didn't want to wait until then to build a CBG, so went with ready made just to know I had a workable tool to learn the basics on. Shane's latest "How To Play" is a great start to at least get me making sound. The only thing I would add is having him walk a newbie through a basic blues tune just so one could sit back and say "well, I played something anyway". having one under your belt goes a long way to wanting to learn more.
My rant.
Tony
To get back to "best". We all want to create acceptable and decent CBGs, it is in us not to want to look foolish or useless. So as part of our homework we look for those things ( ie the best) that will increase our chances of at least some degree of "success and or acceptance"
We can argue about Shane being the "best" exponent of CBG currently, but just look at that "terrible looking" CBG he is playing in his recent videos. Some might say "I would not be seen dead with a CBG like that". As for me, i would not care if I played a bunch of firewood if i could play like him! Who cares about packaging except for the "marketing people" in our society.
Hmm, I guess I didn't make myself clear: I was trying to articulate reasons why some new builders are asking for advice about the "best" (material, plan, box, etc.). I think such questions are often driven by fears like those I articulated. As it happens, I'm cantankerous / determined / bullheaded enough that those fears aren't keeping me from building. I *have* avoided some trickier technique to date (scarf necks, for instance) because I wanted to get a few builds under my belt, and save up the marital brownie points for some tools. ;)
Hmm, I guess I didn't make myself clear: I was trying to articulate reasons why some new builders are asking for advice about the "best" (material, plan, box, etc.). I think such questions are often driven by fears like those I articulated. As it happens, I'm cantankerous / determined / bullheaded enough that those fears aren't keeping me from building. I *have* avoided some trickier technique to date (scarf necks, for instance) because I wanted to get a few builds under my belt, and save up the marital brownie points for some tools. ;)
You can build a perfectly acceptable CBG that will play some nice blues/folk/rock/gospel... etc. with off the shelf materials from Lowes, Home Depot, etc, plus the cheapest strings you can buy, some recycle tuners from your local guitar repair guy's scrap box and a couple of bolts for bridge and nut.....and any cigar box you can get your hands on (I'd recommend a minimum 5 X 8 X 1 1/2 but have build playable CBGs under these minimums)
Beyond this, relax and learn as you go. The more you build, the more you will develop an intuitive sense about what to do to get a certain sound. The more you move away from an acoustic instrument, the less important box size, etc. is and the more important the setup of your electronic compoenents are.....
Just have fun, ask questions, those who want to help will, but... in the long run you're going to have to convince yourself that any of the advice you get was good or not by... building....
the best,
Wichita SAm
Tres Seaver said:
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