I am about to wind my first pup. It is going to be a 3 stringer. From what I can tell, 8,000 wraps of 42 AWG is a good starting point for a first try, then I can experiment from there. I've read as much as I can find but most of the info out there is for 6-stringers.
Think 8,000 is a good place to start? 8500?
Thanks!
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make 20 or so... you'll figure out what you like by then. that's how i did it anyway... pile on as much wire as you can, and then put on some more. i can't count past three so anything past that is a mystery to me.
Here are the variables that will make a pickup sound different (some make a bigger difference than others):
Shape of bobbin/coil - tall and narrow vs. short and wide
number of coils
type of magnet - alnico vs. ceramic vs. neodymium vs. samarium cobalt
strength of magnet - for example alnico, 2, 5, 8 etc.
shape and orientation of the magnet
number of magnets
wire wound directly around the magnet vs. wire wound on a core
core material
adjustable vs. non adjustable pole pieces
wire gauge/thickness
number of wraps
wire insulation
straight wound vs. scatter wound
winding tension
shielded or not
potted or not
metal cover or base
type of metal
shape of metal
probably a few more I can't think of at the moment
As you can see, there are almost limitless possibilities for making different sounds from magnetic pickups, some of which are better than others as you've already found out. That's why copying a tried and true formula when you're starting out is a good idea.
When you have 3 or 4 poles, the number of winds is about the same as those listed for 6 poles, but the resistance will look a lot different, because of course, the wire is going around a shorter distance.
I wound a pickup a while back and I just had one small spool of wire I bought at some big, giant electronic store. I am not sure how many winds I used, I just wound the whole thing on my magnets with my sewing machine to see what it sounded like. It had a really deep sound to it.....neat.....but not really my thing. They say go with 8,000.....go with -8,000 bit if you want to wing it....heck, add the whole spool. I use new button magnets from wal-mart in most of the pups I make....nice strong magnets.
Thanks for the advice. I tend to like the less trebley sound. I just want a good, grungy, dirty blues sound. I think I'll try alnico 2s with 8-9k wraps to start. Thanks for your perspective.
Yes Kevin I mean more wire turns but that is with 42 gauge heavy formvar insulated wire. Because of the thicker coating of the wire, the windings are slightly separated further apart than with Plain enamel coated wire. That changes how it sounds. You can wind heavy formvar the same winds and output will be similar but it will sound different. I find the 42 gauge heavy with Alnico 2 magnets has less of a sharp edge (a bit more mellow but still bright) on the top end and I really like the definition on the bottom end. It is just my opinion but I feel with the smaller instruments I'm making, they benefit greatly from this approach. This is all a matter of taste however.
Before you go off taking my advice, give some thought as to what kind of sound you are looking for out of the pickup. Without knowing what kind of wire and magnets you are using and what the sound is you are going after, I have no way of advising you on what approach to take. I am only relating my experience in building.
At first I was just happy to have sound out of my first pickup but that was short lived when I began comparing my builds to my other guitars pickups. So I wound, then wound some more. Tried different wire and magnets. Made tall coils, short squat ones and wide coils. I listened and took notes. I started with a list of classic single coil specifications and besides a few baseline common observations from it, disregarded it almost immediately.
If you already have the wire and magnets, just start winding then wire it up and have a listen. Then wind another one with 1000 more turns and do the same, comparing the two. Then 1000 less than the first. At this point you will at least know which direction to head sound wise. Out of these three pickups, there will be one you like best and you will have reference points to go by.
Kevin said:
Don, by wound fat do you mean more winds? 9k?
Don Goguen said:
I'll agree that 8k is a generally good starting point but that will also depend on the sound you are going for and what magnets you are using. When I started building pickups, I researched the spec's for classic tele pickups and tried to duplicate it with 3 & 4 poles. What I quickly discovered is that it didn't directly translate into the sound I was after. So it was back to the drawing board.
So depending on what you are after, you can go Alnico 2 or 5. 5 will be brighter and I found on shorter scale, higher pitched instruments to be too bright and a little shrill for what I was after. For smaller pickups, I like Alnico 2 wound fat with 42awg heavy formvar wire. It yields a richer tone with good top end that doesn't take your head off. I've also gone up to almost 11k turns with solid body 3 string pickups with good results in tone.
If you are going to play loud, don't forget to pot the pickup in wax to keep it from being microphonic.
There are a couple of 3 string pickup detail photos on my guitar blog page at http://bit.ly/3string
I'll agree that 8k is a generally good starting point but that will also depend on the sound you are going for and what magnets you are using. When I started building pickups, I researched the spec's for classic tele pickups and tried to duplicate it with 3 & 4 poles. What I quickly discovered is that it didn't directly translate into the sound I was after. So it was back to the drawing board.
So depending on what you are after, you can go Alnico 2 or 5. 5 will be brighter and I found on shorter scale, higher pitched instruments to be too bright and a little shrill for what I was after. For smaller pickups, I like Alnico 2 wound fat with 42awg heavy formvar wire. It yields a richer tone with good top end that doesn't take your head off. I've also gone up to almost 11k turns with solid body 3 string pickups with good results in tone.
If you are going to play loud, don't forget to pot the pickup in wax to keep it from being microphonic.
There are a couple of 3 string pickup detail photos on my guitar blog page at http://bit.ly/3string
I'll agree that 8k is a generally good starting point but that will also depend on the sound you are going for and what magnets you are using. When I started building pickups, I researched the spec's for classic tele pickups and tried to duplicate it with 3 & 4 poles. What I quickly discovered is that it didn't directly translate into the sound I was after. So it was back to the drawing board.
So depending on what you are after, you can go Alnico 2 or 5. 5 will be brighter and I found on shorter scale, higher pitched instruments to be too bright and a little shrill for what I was after. For smaller pickups, I like Alnico 2 wound fat with 42awg heavy formvar wire. It yields a richer tone with good top end that doesn't take your head off. I've also gone up to almost 11k turns with solid body 3 string pickups with good results in tone.
If you are going to play loud, don't forget to pot the pickup in wax to keep it from being microphonic.
There are a couple of 3 string pickup detail photos on my guitar blog page at http://bit.ly/3string
Replies
Shape of bobbin/coil - tall and narrow vs. short and wide
number of coils
type of magnet - alnico vs. ceramic vs. neodymium vs. samarium cobalt
strength of magnet - for example alnico, 2, 5, 8 etc.
shape and orientation of the magnet
number of magnets
wire wound directly around the magnet vs. wire wound on a core
core material
adjustable vs. non adjustable pole pieces
wire gauge/thickness
number of wraps
wire insulation
straight wound vs. scatter wound
winding tension
shielded or not
potted or not
metal cover or base
type of metal
shape of metal
probably a few more I can't think of at the moment
As you can see, there are almost limitless possibilities for making different sounds from magnetic pickups, some of which are better than others as you've already found out. That's why copying a tried and true formula when you're starting out is a good idea.
When you have 3 or 4 poles, the number of winds is about the same as those listed for 6 poles, but the resistance will look a lot different, because of course, the wire is going around a shorter distance.
Before you go off taking my advice, give some thought as to what kind of sound you are looking for out of the pickup. Without knowing what kind of wire and magnets you are using and what the sound is you are going after, I have no way of advising you on what approach to take. I am only relating my experience in building.
At first I was just happy to have sound out of my first pickup but that was short lived when I began comparing my builds to my other guitars pickups. So I wound, then wound some more. Tried different wire and magnets. Made tall coils, short squat ones and wide coils. I listened and took notes. I started with a list of classic single coil specifications and besides a few baseline common observations from it, disregarded it almost immediately.
If you already have the wire and magnets, just start winding then wire it up and have a listen. Then wind another one with 1000 more turns and do the same, comparing the two. Then 1000 less than the first. At this point you will at least know which direction to head sound wise. Out of these three pickups, there will be one you like best and you will have reference points to go by.
Kevin said:
Don Goguen said:
So depending on what you are after, you can go Alnico 2 or 5. 5 will be brighter and I found on shorter scale, higher pitched instruments to be too bright and a little shrill for what I was after. For smaller pickups, I like Alnico 2 wound fat with 42awg heavy formvar wire. It yields a richer tone with good top end that doesn't take your head off. I've also gone up to almost 11k turns with solid body 3 string pickups with good results in tone.
If you are going to play loud, don't forget to pot the pickup in wax to keep it from being microphonic.
There are a couple of 3 string pickup detail photos on my guitar blog page at http://bit.ly/3string
Don