I have for some time now been building CBGs with a fret scale of 25.5 inches. I also laid out a template for fret spacing by matching it up to my acoustic Fender guitar. The old scale template came off a Samick electric. Same scale length but the spacing between frets is different from the Fender layout. So I went with the Fender layout. My question is how do I check or achieve perfect intonation and will it change due to acoustic qualities of different boxes. I attempted to mark notes as they changed on the neck(done with a brass rod and tuner) marked flats and whole note changes. This layout is really different
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What Wes said. Skootch the nut away from the bridge between 1/16 and 1/32", and leave all the other frets exactly where they belong, and that helps compensate for string stretch when playing at the nut. That plus using a zero fret has made my more recent instruments much closer to the elusive "perfect".
Wes "Moanin' Mule" Yates said:
Imma with Matt on this one. Intonation is not hard to achieve yet you will never achieve perfect intonation. You might get close but will still be off. My B and G strings (I use DGBe strings) are always out a little. But if you think of it, no matter what you do, you will never perfectly achieve exact tonality by sheer nature of the strings, their mass, the gauge, the type, what note is their root... There is a great article that explains this all.
jumbo zero fret, fretless neck=tolerable slide, especially if you like to do some fingerstyle on your fretless instrument... if you need to never touch the fingerboard and only play the slide, then, build a tall nut....
actually its diatonic, its dead simple to play.. no ugly notes, you just go for it. there no scales or patterns or any such tedious nonsense to know cos its built into the instrument, it was designed as an educational tool and an instrument for the disabled..
a zero fret can make sliding a little trickier yes, but certainly not impossible, you just need to learn a lighter touch. In my opinion a zero fret is the ticket to sonic nirvana, i havent done a neck without for more than 8 months
Jef. I've wondered about that. How well does a zero fret work with slide?
I've just had another look at your Mundfick doubleheader. All credit to you for doing that, but as a someone new to playing that would give me nightmares, as would the neck above.
Jef Long said:
try a zero fret roadkill, answers a lot of problems...
thats a just intonated neck huh ?
if u ever wanna get serious about part frets drop me a line, its easier than it looks//
... That or check the nut height. The higher the nut action, the higher the possibility that the pitch will be sharp at the first thru third/fouth fret. A zero fret would be best as its just slightly higher than the first fret.
-WY
Jef Long said:
try a zero fret roadkill, answers a lot of problems...
thats a just intonated neck huh ?
if u ever wanna get serious about part frets drop me a line, its easier than it looks//
An adjustable tail piece could go along way to help the fine tuning of all strings as well. I have used them with my six string build but have not done so with my 4 or 3 string builds yet, but as I strive towards perfecting my craft I might find this to be a big help
On my last one I thought that I would get pretty much perfect intonation by using an adjustable bridge. Tuned the strings (playing thought my computer and checking intonation using the tuner in Garage Band). Strings in tune when open. Strings in tune at the 12th fret. Fine. Now, as I get nearer the nut the pitch goes a little sharp (only a little). Going from the 12th towards the bridge it goes a little flat. Turns out that the issue is nut height as mentioned above. This article seems to give the answer. Also the fact that the fret positions are based on equal temperament, which is always a compromise.
I haven't got round to undercutting the nut yet, but it's something that I will probably do at some time and will do on future ones.
Now, if you really want to get picky, how about this. I don't even what to think how you would cut for those frets.
well thank you all for your input on this issue and thank you Matt for shining the light on the probable cause. I believe it is probably the nut height. being that fret spacing is directly related to the length of the scale I dont think spacing is my issue. It is also good to hear I probably will never get to a perfect intonation but still I will get as close as possible. String gauge can be another issue but not as much as the nut height. Thanks again to all
Replies
What Wes said. Skootch the nut away from the bridge between 1/16 and 1/32", and leave all the other frets exactly where they belong, and that helps compensate for string stretch when playing at the nut. That plus using a zero fret has made my more recent instruments much closer to the elusive "perfect".
Wes "Moanin' Mule" Yates said:
Now I didn't say perfect intonation was impossible. With experience, that will come as you learn. It's just more than 1 or 2 variables.
Most of mine are dead on now. Worst case scenario is a few "cents" off ....... no one could ever hear that small a difference.
AFKAM
hey thanks...
actually its diatonic, its dead simple to play.. no ugly notes, you just go for it. there no scales or patterns or any such tedious nonsense to know cos its built into the instrument, it was designed as an educational tool and an instrument for the disabled..
a zero fret can make sliding a little trickier yes, but certainly not impossible, you just need to learn a lighter touch. In my opinion a zero fret is the ticket to sonic nirvana, i havent done a neck without for more than 8 months
Jef. I've wondered about that. How well does a zero fret work with slide?
I've just had another look at your Mundfick doubleheader. All credit to you for doing that, but as a someone new to playing that would give me nightmares, as would the neck above.
Jef Long said:
-WY
Jef Long said:
try a zero fret roadkill, answers a lot of problems...
thats a just intonated neck huh ?
if u ever wanna get serious about part frets drop me a line, its easier than it looks//
On my last one I thought that I would get pretty much perfect intonation by using an adjustable bridge. Tuned the strings (playing thought my computer and checking intonation using the tuner in Garage Band). Strings in tune when open. Strings in tune at the 12th fret. Fine. Now, as I get nearer the nut the pitch goes a little sharp (only a little). Going from the 12th towards the bridge it goes a little flat. Turns out that the issue is nut height as mentioned above. This article seems to give the answer. Also the fact that the fret positions are based on equal temperament, which is always a compromise.
I haven't got round to undercutting the nut yet, but it's something that I will probably do at some time and will do on future ones.
Now, if you really want to get picky, how about this. I don't even what to think how you would cut for those frets.
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