Are there any problems with using 1/4" poplar for a fret board on a red oak neck? Is it a hard enough wood for that purpose?
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Are there any problems with using 1/4" poplar for a fret board on a red oak neck? Is it a hard enough wood for that purpose?
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Poplar is rather soft, and for putting frets into wouldn't be a great choice. - the main problem is that it is really easy to drive the frets into the surface of the timber, resulting in an uneven fret job.
Amen to this... I have had to resort to a "textured" fingerboard from a miss-lick with the rubber mallet when pounding in the frets. Luckily the build I was working on was supposed to look old and beat up, but the other problem was the frets sliding side to side as I would file the ends. I had to glue the ends with CA Glue (which some would say is normal, but I have never had to do this when using a harder wood for the fretboard).
I like Poplar okay enough, but mainly only use it on fretless builds, or if I use a harder wood (like Oak) for the fretboard.
My next build will be my first with frets. I am going to use a Rosewood fret board over a red oak neck. I purchased a 1/4" x 1 1/2" piece of poplar to test with. I am having a helluva time fretting this poplar. I am using the CB Gitty set up with their miter box, fret saw and dead blow hammer with medium/medium frets. After cutting the slots, I can't get the fret wire to seat properly in the poplar. The frets pop out and slide. Should my slot be as deep as the tang, or slightly shallower to all the tang to bite? I am getting frustrated. Maybe I should get myself another piece of Rosewood to practice on (don't want to spend the money).
Thanks for letting me vent and for going slightly off topic.
1. I decided against poplar for frets even though it means traveling a little farther to Lowes for oak instead of Home Depot. which only has poplar in 1/4"x '2. I will use it for fretlesses only, which shouldn't be a problem when attached to the easily available red oak which is pretty much the only decent hardwood available in 1'x 2" in my immediate area
2. I'm not too much farther along than you. I just completed my fourth fretted build. I used 1/8" ash for the fretboards, because I was building according to the David Sutton book which calls for the much harder to find 1/8" hardwood. (I ordered from Rockler)
3. I use the Gitty set up too. The frets will pop out if the slots aren't deep enough. Sometimes you need to do an extra saw stroke or two. Basically when done properly the "tang" will hammer into the wood much like a nail and stay in place. I start off with 5 and 1/2 saw strokes (back towards me and then back up to the original position being "one stroke"). That seems to work for most frets. Every once in awhile I have to add a stroke or two to get the tang to "bite'. Basically once you figure out the proper depth, using the same number of saw strokes will work for most of the subsequent frets. There always seems to be one or two (sometimes a few more) spots in the wood that need that extra stroke, but overall counting saw strokes works pretty well.
Basically if when you clip/trim the fret and it comes up, not deep enough. You should also be able to lightly pull on the seated fret without it coming up, if it does, not deep enough. In either case, you should be able to add the small amount of depth and get the fret to hold. (You can rehammer the same fret back into place.) Bottom line you should be able to hammer it in place and not easily be able to pop it out. Glue should be an option not a necessity. (I don't glue).
4. If you actually want to play the fretted guitar with accurate fretted intonation and no dead spots. You will need to learn how to level and crown the frets. (Sounds harder than it is, but it does take a bit of time). For that you will need a fret "rocker" and a "medium" crowning file (Gitty uses "medium frets" in their kits there for you want a "medium file"). These can be found easily on Amazon, there are also "kits" available most of which use sandpaper instead of a file. I prefer the file. (Rocker and file less than $20 if you shop wisely)
I hope some of that helps you out.
Scott, thank you for your detailed reply. I want to make sure I have it right. Does the fret slot need to be deeper than the tang, or does the tang bite into the wood at the bottom of the slot?
I guess I'll have to practice on a true hard wood rather than poplar.
Thank yo once again for your thoughtful reply to my dilemma.
The slot should be slightly deeper than the tang. Those "little bumps" on the side of the tang are what does the bulk of the gripping work. You want it deep enough for those to to grip the wood. In the end, you can always make a shallow slot deeper, so err on the side of caution. It doesn't take too much practice to get the hang of it. If you do go too deep by mistake the slot can be filled with wood plastic or putty, then sanded and recut.
I used an extra 4 or 5 inch section of the fretboard wood that was left over after I sawed it to length and glued it to a scrap piece of 1x2, evened up the edges with a plane, and I had a practice fretboard. Of course just a piece of oak 1x2 will work by itself too for practice, or you can get 1/4" oak and glue it on a 1x2 for a practice situation before moving on to the more expensive wood.
I didn't worry about spacing on the practice board so there was plenty of room for lots of fret hammering. But I felt pretty good after about four practice tries so I went for it. Learning most of the stuff I'm telling you as I went. But I had been cutting "2 stroke slots" in my fretlesses that I previously built to help guide my woodburner and avoid sloppy lines. So I had already overcome the fear of sawing into the neck and had some previous "practice with the fret saw and jig".
Anyway like I said count saw strokes and you will be pretty consistent with your depths. Softer wood seem to require less, harder woods may need that extra one or two saw strokes.
Also if you built a neck with a heel, the Gitty jig will not be deep enough as you get towards the higher frets. So also practice using a square for a sawing guide. Same number of saw strokes but without the jig you need to be more careful when cutting. And that's how I know that small erroneous saw strokes near enough to the slot will be covered up by the fret once it's hammered in.
Have fun.
Scott, thanks for the clarification. I'm ready to power forward. I think I will trim down my rosewood fret board blank so I can practice on a real piece of hardwood (also the eventual board for this build). This is going to be a 1/4" fret board overlaying a 1x2 oak neck.
Wish me success.
BTW, what is the advantage of using a 1/8" fret board over a 1/4" board?
What Brian said!! I tried it on my last build (#3) and ended up having to glue in every fret. I doubt that I'll be using poplar again, at least not on a fretted CBG. I'm still learning and it's taking me a while to figure things out, but this site has been very helpful!!
Poplar isn't really that hard and wouldn't be my first choice. Also, if you are going to stain it, you need to apply a staining sealer or it will look blotchy.
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