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Fretted My First CBG and the Intonation is Off...

Posted by Brian Revels on September 27, 2013 at 2:22pm in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion

Howdy Ya'll...

I thought to make a 4 string, fretted CBG for my first build.  I thought if I could build this one then any 3 string I did subsequently would be a cinch.  Well, I think I bit off more than I could chew.  

The build turned out pretty good for a first time ever making anything like this, but the frets are off, sort of.  The harmonics are dead on... beautiful, but using a fancy vibration tuner, and a stompbox as well, when fretted the strings don't ring true.  The notes fretted are wrong and it is hard to tune by ear.  Don't get me wrong, it actually sounds close and plays okay when chording and strumming.  But the intonation is wrecked.  


The top string is currently tuned to "A".  So open I get an "A".  Fretting the first fret I get an "A" at +150. 2nd fret plays "B" at -150.  3rd fret is "B" at +150, etc... etc... HELP! 

I am using a 5/8" bolt for the nut and bridge (only the bridge has a thin piece of wood below it).  I swapped out for a smaller nut bolt (the next size down) and took out the piece of wood under my bridge.  I even swapped out my tail piece for one with 4 holes.  I also added string trees/keepers to the headstock.  These all helped the sound of the thing, reducing some slight fret and string buzz, but that's about it.

Thoughts?  Advise? 

Tabak CBG.jpg

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Tags: 4-string, CBG, Intonation, Tabak, tuning
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  • The Phrygian Kid October 4, 2013 at 10:32am
    Mate probly half my videos are that scale length. It's just a wee bit shorter, like a fender capoed to fret two or so. I tune em up to G mostly so the tension is a wee bit more than on a guitar, I use .011 sets mostly


    http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/scales-are-fun
    http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/jingles-1
    http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/bruce6bang-1
    http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/tassie-strummer-24-1-12
    http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/autumn-moon-ii
    http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/tim-tam-lullaby

    There's more than you can probly be bothered watching right there, those ones are def all 600mm (23 5/8")
    I like the shorter scale cos there's notes you can't reach in open tunings if you go to 25
  • David McQueen October 1, 2013 at 11:13am

    Brian I think you are making your life hard here.

    Get yourself a piece of 1/4", x 1 1/2" wood, cheap poplar will do.

    Below is a 25.5" scale measuring chart I cabbaged off the net. there are lots of scales around. This is the most common used and is closest to the classical guitar scale.

    Very carefully, starting at fret 0, which is the location of the nut, mark off your board.  Also put a mark at the 25.5" mark.This shows you where the bridge will be.

    Then take a square or a T-square and mark across for each one.  Now you have a fret ruler.

    Check it out on a guitar with a 25.5" scale. The lines should match up with the actual frets and the bridge location.

    1. You can use this to transfer measurements to the fret board you are building. Just clamp the two together and use a square to bring the marks over.

    2. You can use this to see how long you have to leave the neck and where on the box the bridge will end up. That is, you can plan for where the bridge will be on the guitar on a through neck by designing for the right location of the box. On small boxes, the frets probably will not come al the way to the box. There may be a blank section of fret board bet5ween the last fret and the box top.

    3. For cutting your frets, again, use a square. Put the fret saw on top of the mark at the edge of the board and then bring the square up to the saw. Then let the rest of the saw drop down on the board along the square and use it as a saw guide cutting your slots. It takes a bit to get the hang of it.

    4. The distance from the nut is the distance from where the string actually breaks off from the nut towards the bridge. On a square nut, it is the nut edge.  Using a bolt it is most likely at the center or just off center.

    You should be able to copy and paste this into a word processor, spread sheet or text editor and clean it up.

    Hope this helps.

    25.5" scale

    Fret       Dist. from Nut

    0         0.000

    1         1.431

    2         2.782

    3         4.057

    4         5.261

    5         6.397

    6         7.469

    7         8.481

    8         9.436

    9       10.338

    10      11.189

    11      11.992

    12      12.750

    13      13.466

    14      14.141

    15      14.779

    16      15.380

    17      15.948

    18      16.484

    19      16.990

    20      17.468

    21      17.919

    22      18.344

    23      18.746

    24       19.125

    Bridge 25.5"

    If you cannot find a decimal ruler Here are equivalents.

    Inches                             Decimal

    1/64                                  0.015625

    1/32 - 2/64                         0.03125

    3/64                                  0.046875

    1/16 - 2/32 - 4/64                0.0625

    5/64                                   0.078125

    3/32 - 6/64                           0.09375

    7/64                                    0.109375

    1/8 - 2/16 - 4/32 - 8/64           0.125

    9/64                                      0.140625

    5/32 - 10/64                           0.15625

    11/64                                    0.171875

    3/16 - 6/32 - 12/64                  0.1875

    13/64                                     0.203125

    7/32 - 14/64                            0.21875

    15/64                                     0.234375

    1/4 - 2/8 - 4/16 - 8/32 - 16/64    0.25

    17/64                                     0.265625

    9/32 - 18/64                           0.28125

    19/64                                      0.296875

    5/16 - 10/32 - 20/64                   0.3125

    21/64                                       0.328125

    11/32 - 22/64                            0.34375

    23/64                                       0.359375

    3/8 - 6/16 - 12/32 - 24/64            0.375

    25/64                                      0.390625

    13/32 - 26/64                           0.40625

    27/64                                      0.421875

    7/16 - 14/32 - 28/64                 0.4375

    29/64                                       0.453125

    15/32 - 30/64                            0.46875

    31/64                                      0.484375

    1/2 - 2/4 - 4/8 - 8/16 - 16/32 - 32/64   0.5

    33/64                                     0.515625

    17/32 - 34/64                           0.53125

    35/64                                    0.546875

    9/16 - 18/32 - 36/64                 0.5625

    37/64                                     0.578125

    19/32 - 38/64                          0.59375

    39/64                                     0.609375

    5/8 -10/16 - 20/32 - 40/64        0.625

    41/64                                     0.640625

    21/32 - 42/64                          0.65625

    43/64                                     0.671875

    11/16 - 22/32 - 44/64                0.6875

    45/64                                     0.703125

    23/32 - 46/64                          0.71875

    47/64                                     0.734375

    3/4 - 6/8 - 12/16 - 24/32 - 48/64   0.75

    49/64                                       0.765625

    25/32 - 50/64                           0.78125

    51/64                                     0.796875

    13/16 - 26/32 - 52/64                   0.8125

    53/64                                        0.828125

    27/32 - 54/64                               0.84375

    55/64                                        0.859375

    7/8 - 14/16 - 28/32 - 56/64         0.875

    57/64                                       0.890625

    29/32 - 58/64                             0.90625

    59/64                                       0.921875

    15/16 - 30/32 - 60/64                 0.9375

    61/64                                      0.953125

    31/32 - 62/64                            0.96875

    63/64                                       0.984375

    1 - 2/2 - 4/4 - 8/8 - 16/16 - 32/32 - 64/64       1

    • jabes > David McQueen October 1, 2013 at 12:32pm

      or of course

      http://www.cigarboxnation.com/profiles/blogs/measuring-frets-the-ea...

      just check your printout with a ruler ,if 0-12 is correct you're in business

      • The Phrygian Kid > jabes October 3, 2013 at 5:18pm

        wfret is rubbish

        here :)

        neck.pdf

        • jabes > The Phrygian Kid October 5, 2013 at 2:01pm

          no it isn't

        • The Capo Kid > The Phrygian Kid October 5, 2013 at 4:48am

           Nice printout , but how you get them ? , I've put the app on my Iphone  but how do you turn a pic on the Iphone into that printout you've posted ?

          • The Phrygian Kid > The Capo Kid October 5, 2013 at 5:56am
            There's a hack :D
            • The Capo Kid > The Phrygian Kid October 5, 2013 at 6:50am

               Ok so how can you say Wfret is useless and yours is the D's B's if us mere mortals can't make use of it ?   :(

              • The Phrygian Kid > The Capo Kid October 5, 2013 at 7:21am
                There isn't really a hack, the printout you see is from v3 which is still in beta. There is code is v2 which does the printing but there's no UI element to activate it, I abandoned it at the time and (because) it's nowhere near as refined as it is in v3 and did not feature the head design tool anyway. Thanks for being a user, the update is hopefully around a month away, I'm working hard at it.

                WFret is not useless, please don't misunderstand me, I just think the printouts are hard to follow with no dot markers etc plus a lot of guys have had trouble getting it to work for various reasons, I was just offering up something painless for the fella. I'm working on something that is truly 'plug and play' and does a lot more than just fret slots. But I'm not claiming to have met any D's who were prepared to part with their B's. :)
                Anywho... There's a template, enjoy. The tuners on that head should be a very close match for mr gittys budget open back jobbies
                • The Capo Kid > The Phrygian Kid October 5, 2013 at 2:21pm

                  No template ???

This reply was deleted.