When I went to a street festival nearby,all I had to do was plug a d-bow in to the lil' 5 watt, push the overdrive button, and play 1 verse and chorus of "5 lbs. of possum".
People came over to see what the ruckus was. lol
I hear what Josh is saying. Also, a few years ago I walked right past a Daddy Mojo in a music store and did'nt even blink. I know quite a bit about guitars, but knew nothing about CBG's. I think you would have to educate your customers before making sales. I did'nt care about this cool little things until I heard them. The gutteral, grinding tones are what opened my eyes and ears to CBG's. I also think that if you rely on cbg's as a business, it could very well take all the fun out of building and that's why I am doing what I do.
I got into CBG's because someone gave me a "Old Crowe Medicine Show" CD. It resparked my desire to play blues slide guitar. After searching for a (good) starter guitar, preferably a tricone resonator, I soon came to realize that I was gonna need about 2,500 bucks for a decent instrument. I admitted to myself that was not likely gonna happen anytime soon so I started looking into getting a banjo, cause I've always wanted to learn the banjo as well, well you can drop some serious coin on a banjo as well. Then I found CBG's.....
That was around Nov. of last year and after a trip back home for the holidays I got back to my shop and began making CBG's. Since then I have made about 6 and recently made a six stringer to be used by a local musician who is an accomplished recording artist. I myself am not a guitar player, (I play the drums), but I love the gritty delta slide blues guitar. So when I finished the six stringer I held onto it as long as I could and tried to make the thing sing, to no avail. When I did finally decide to let my creation go, I got my mind blown. My customer plugged it into a small Gibson tube amp, made by non other that Jimmy Page's guitar tech, with no effects, his true test of my creation.
The mojo that proceeded to flow off of that guitar encompassed the room and flowed on down the hall, blowing everyone's mind, especially mine, triggering something I had never expected. To hear something that I built, being used to belt out some serious blues was one of the high points of my life lately. And soon he will be playing my creation on stage at an upcoming gig and I guess I can expect some orders after more people are exposed to our little secret (CBG's).
I am a custom wood worker/cabinet builder and the last two years I have had to lower my labor rates more than half and as of Jan. I had to work as a framer to keep a paycheck coming in. The most frustrating thing about that is that I know the real reason for the economic disaster and what we are told by the idiot box is not the real story which is a subject for another time if anyone is interested. However, if I have learned anything lately it is that the chasing of Federal Reserve Notes is about as productive as my dog chasing his tail, for me, true happiness is making something that brings joy to others' lives and exceeding expectations.
Since building the six string I have decided to pursue higher education in the field of Luthierism and my hope is that I can become a custom guitar builder with a 12 month waiting period, will it happen? I don't know but I do know that I will be much happier building musical instruments than built-in cabinets and kitchens for spoiled rotten yuppies who are trying to get me to work for wages I was getting twenty years ago.
Can you make money at building CBG's? Maybe. Can you live a more enriched life building musical instruments and traveling around meeting new people and experiencing life, most definately!!! Tap into the great resources here at The Nation and Handmademusicalinstruments.com and you will find a community that resonates with your soul, a microcosm of what we have always craved in our Human experience, good vibrations, good people, sharing and experiencing the joy of music's effect on our relationships.
Good luck Captn Ron, I hope that wasn't too esoteric and mushy, but I've given these things alot of thought lately and I hope it helps you in some way.
You know, overall we builders (who also are sellers) on the Nation here are pretty respectful of other members. Heck, I sent someone to Wichita Sam because he's closer to them -- and this was a nationally known band! Mind you I would want the business, but as said here, we are not gonna make a mint (or even mucho bucko's) building CBGs, that's all there is to it. Beer money for me. Support of a habit. A fun way to keep the mind sharp or at least working and I get a great feeling of accomplishment.
-WY
Roger Martin said:
I have no problem with some one who builds his own instruments and wants to sell next door to me if he wants to.My instruments can hold their own in that situation.But I Do have a problem with the opportunist that comes along,bringing in product that he had SOMEONE else build and pass it off as HIS build. So I'm more then willing to try something new ( to me) and maybe form some sort of alliance? with guys (or some our our very talented gals)Maybe theres something I can help them with and we can help each other out .Who knows maybe we can put the guys that have their "product" imported so to speak away. One more thing,there are many folks here that put me to shame in the playing dept.
I'd like to extend and invitation, to all members here , to come by and do their stuff anytime they want to .Pop in and bang away,sing too if you like.My voice is pretty much gone ,I sound now days like I swallowed a bucket of gravel, lol
So all ya'll that are by this way stop by,maybe we can have some fun.
I have vowed to sell at a loss this coming month if I have to,This is WAR!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
I have no problem with some one who builds his own instruments and wants to sell next door to me if he wants to.My instruments can hold their own in that situation.But I Do have a problem with the opportunist that comes along,bringing in product that he had SOMEONE else build and pass it off as HIS build.
So I'm more then willing to try something new ( to me) and maybe form some sort of alliance? with guys (or some our our very talented gals)Maybe theres something I can help them with and we can help each other out .Who knows maybe we can put the guys that have their "product" imported so to speak away.
One more thing,there are many folks here that put me to shame in the playing dept.
I'd like to extend and invitation, to all members here , to come by and do their stuff anytime they want to .Pop in and bang away,sing too if you like.My voice is pretty much gone ,I sound now days like I swallowed a bucket of gravel, lol
So all ya'll that are by this way stop by,maybe we can have some fun.
I have vowed to sell at a loss this coming month if I have to,This is WAR!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
I'm starting to feel what Roger is talking about.
As far as I know I am the only builder and seller of CBG's in my area. I have stuff in 2 guitar shops ( a good distance from each other - no competition) and I do have a new website ( cuz sooooo many people ask for it). Most of my sales come from going to local festivals of one sort or another with in a 50 mile er so range.
At the last blugrass festival, there were 2 other music stores with booths. One local to me ( 5 min.) the other 1/2 hour away. One talked to me and is now carrying my stuff, the other ( local) kept sending their kid over to spy. Thru the course of the day, he looked at every instrument and price tag I had.
In a week er so I'm gonna go visit the shop to "buy" a cheap set of strings or something ..... but I expect to see a cbg hangin' on his wall. I have already been warned about this guy and he's been in business less than 6 months!
Matt - it's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milkbone drawers!
OK, though I love building these things and selling them I want to show you the seedy side of the business.Very recently I had to sever my relationship with my former partner due to business practices that I dont approve of among other things.
This fellow sell dulcimers, can-jos, a couple of new products that I ENCOURAGED him to sell,amps etc.No good deed goes unpunished???
I just sell basic 3 string fretless CBGS, amps and pickups.The basics that most anyone can afford in this market.
I've never sold Can-jos.
Because we're in the same building I've avoided encroaching on his part of the market.This week I was informed that he has decided he will sell CBG's too,and yes he has them is his shop.Which forces me to do what I didnt want to do and thats sell can-jo's also.
I build and sell all my own product so I can only turn out so much of whatever I sell.This guy has some one that builds for him and mostly all he does himself is sit in his shop and hawk all day.
Since he has decided the thing to do is sell what I sell, it's going to be rough.
I'm trying to set up somebody that can build the can-jo's for me as unless I give up the rest of the sleep I had already given up, I just cant crank em out fast enough.
I dont say this to complain, well maybe a little bit but to give you another side of the business you may not be aware of.'
There are unscrupulous people out there,and if you have good success like I have had the last year or so your going to have people literally trying to put you out of business.
My former partner (I'm glad I got out) is out to do me in.This is the side of business you have to look out for also.I've always tried to run an honest business and offer good service at the TIME of sale plus help and assistance later AFTER the sale if my customer needed it.Thats not my former partners way of thinking.
Anyway , its a tough business, I found quickly when I started that I couldnt sell high dollar in my market, so I sell what the market will support here.And I've done ok, so far.But I cant compete with the " bring product in in high numbers that SOMBODY ELSE built, sell it ,forget about the customer" thinking I'm competing with right now.
SO you still want to get into the business?? LOL
I started intending only to sell a few here and there, and it just exploded, it got to the point last summer that I could not build fast enough to keep up with sales, as long as I stayed true to this market.But my success has bred a copy cat that has product build else where and sells here.I cant build that fast.
So, I'm trying to line up one of us guys that has the time to build can-jo's ( that I dont even really WANT to sell ) to stay in business.
This fellow doesnt "do" the internet , he has OTHER people do it for him ,and most of his building, so I have my work cut out for me.I'm not sure if I can pull this off, I KNOW I cant by myself. So we'll see what happens.
But my intention here is to let you know that the business has a way of either going great or you find a copycat at your back door trying to cut your throat.
Good luck on whatever way you decide to sell, just be aware that its not as easy as it looks , and there are people that will want what you have if you do well, and will do whatever they have to do to get it.
Earlier, Josh Gayou wrote: The important thing is the obsession with making instruments. Anything else that comes out of it, be it money, business, endorsements, fame, or whatever else is just a side effect of that obsession. Even if I had never gotten anywhere, if I had gotten no notoriety - if I hadn't sold a damned instrument, I'd still be right there in my shop with a hunk of wood and some hand tools.
Well I can tell you, you make beautiful instruments make you a very respected person here, that's for sure. There [in my humble opinion] is a short list of great builders here on the Nation and you are on that list. Thanks for your first person insight.
I don't make a living at this. I couldn't stand to do this for a living. In fact, I've had a lot of people come to me and try to build it into something like that and I've turned them down. The last offer I had was was with Eric Turner. His band Warrant are still together and still touring but he's also a co-owner of a guitar store out where I live. We (he and his wife and me and my wife) had dinner together one evening at a concert and kicked around ideas about getting my stuff in his store but in the end I decided it wasn't really for me. It's the same reason you won't find me at NAMM. I don't have any interest in trying to turn guitars out in volume. You'll also never see me industrialize with CNC or anything like that. The whole process is incredibly personal to me and the wood has to be carved by my hands or not at all.
When I started, the idea was to sell what I could so that I could afford to make more. Nobody had ever heard of me, I had no reputation, so nothing sold until I knocked the prices down so far that I was selling at a loss. At that point things started selling and, as my rep grew, I slowly moved the prices back up to what I felt would be fair. Keep in mind I'm still selling them at a fraction of what I've seen some other guys sell their guitars for but I'm at least now getting a comfortable profit on them. Even so, after the materials and tools that I buy to reinvest back into what I do, I about break even.
In the end, that's about all you can hope for. I have a well equipped shop at my house now that has everything I need to make a hand crafted, top of the line solid body guitar and it was all paid for by CBGs. At some point, when I decide I'm finished buying tools, I'll probably use the money to take my wife and I on a cruise, but I'll never make enough to support a family or retire. My output is between 12 to 20 instruments a year (because I refuse to turn out more than that) averaging between $300 and $800 or so per instrument. So if you average that ($550) and multiply it by the best case (20), we're talking $11,000 in one year - a large portion of which is swallowed up in the parts and materials for each instrument. I easily do better than that in 2 months at my regular day job. Seriously, I have no illusions about going big time with what I do.
The biggest payoff I've gotten in doing this is being able to get really connected to the musical community. Basically, connecting with you guys. Also, all the concerts I've been involved in as a vendor or sponsor. My wife and I have gotten to spend evenings with all sorts famous performers and enjoy concerts in a way that most people only dream of. All of this has happened because, for whatever reason, other people have decided that I am cool because I make electric guitars. That's just fine with me but we all know the truth: we're really just music nerds with an off the wall hobby.
I guess the best I have for you is that doing this with a mind towards making money just isn't gonna get you anywhere. Even if you just want to fund your hobby, there's still a long, hard slog to convince people to buy your stuff. You really have to do something to set yourself apart if you want to get any steam built up. My first few guitars were sold on ebay and a lot of times the auctions would expire. These days I have so much work backed up that posting anything on eBay would just get in my way. I stopped selling bridges and custom necks for that very reason. They were fine for a money supplement when things were slow but they're just a damned distraction when you got guitars to build. Sure I'm doing alright now but I'm telling you, if I had started this out thinking I was going to make a living at it (basically only worried about trying to make money) I never would have gotten this far. I would have given up a long, long time ago in frustration. The important thing is the obsession with making instruments. Anything else that comes out of it, be it money, business, endorsements, fame, or whatever else is just a side effect of that obsession. Even if I had never gotten anywhere, if I had gotten no notoriety - if I hadn't sold a damned instrument, I'd still be right there in my shop with a hunk of wood and some hand tools.
The most successful of any of us out there is with out a doubt Daddy Mojo, They were written up in Playboy and another publication as well, his instruments have been given to well known musicians.
That is without a doubt a major factor in becoming successful in this crazy obsession called (CBG's).
Replies
People came over to see what the ruckus was. lol
It would draw a crowd.
Matt
That was around Nov. of last year and after a trip back home for the holidays I got back to my shop and began making CBG's. Since then I have made about 6 and recently made a six stringer to be used by a local musician who is an accomplished recording artist. I myself am not a guitar player, (I play the drums), but I love the gritty delta slide blues guitar. So when I finished the six stringer I held onto it as long as I could and tried to make the thing sing, to no avail. When I did finally decide to let my creation go, I got my mind blown. My customer plugged it into a small Gibson tube amp, made by non other that Jimmy Page's guitar tech, with no effects, his true test of my creation.
The mojo that proceeded to flow off of that guitar encompassed the room and flowed on down the hall, blowing everyone's mind, especially mine, triggering something I had never expected. To hear something that I built, being used to belt out some serious blues was one of the high points of my life lately. And soon he will be playing my creation on stage at an upcoming gig and I guess I can expect some orders after more people are exposed to our little secret (CBG's).
I am a custom wood worker/cabinet builder and the last two years I have had to lower my labor rates more than half and as of Jan. I had to work as a framer to keep a paycheck coming in. The most frustrating thing about that is that I know the real reason for the economic disaster and what we are told by the idiot box is not the real story which is a subject for another time if anyone is interested. However, if I have learned anything lately it is that the chasing of Federal Reserve Notes is about as productive as my dog chasing his tail, for me, true happiness is making something that brings joy to others' lives and exceeding expectations.
Since building the six string I have decided to pursue higher education in the field of Luthierism and my hope is that I can become a custom guitar builder with a 12 month waiting period, will it happen? I don't know but I do know that I will be much happier building musical instruments than built-in cabinets and kitchens for spoiled rotten yuppies who are trying to get me to work for wages I was getting twenty years ago.
Can you make money at building CBG's? Maybe. Can you live a more enriched life building musical instruments and traveling around meeting new people and experiencing life, most definately!!! Tap into the great resources here at The Nation and Handmademusicalinstruments.com and you will find a community that resonates with your soul, a microcosm of what we have always craved in our Human experience, good vibrations, good people, sharing and experiencing the joy of music's effect on our relationships.
Good luck Captn Ron, I hope that wasn't too esoteric and mushy, but I've given these things alot of thought lately and I hope it helps you in some way.
-WY
Roger Martin said:
So I'm more then willing to try something new ( to me) and maybe form some sort of alliance? with guys (or some our our very talented gals)Maybe theres something I can help them with and we can help each other out .Who knows maybe we can put the guys that have their "product" imported so to speak away.
One more thing,there are many folks here that put me to shame in the playing dept.
I'd like to extend and invitation, to all members here , to come by and do their stuff anytime they want to .Pop in and bang away,sing too if you like.My voice is pretty much gone ,I sound now days like I swallowed a bucket of gravel, lol
So all ya'll that are by this way stop by,maybe we can have some fun.
I have vowed to sell at a loss this coming month if I have to,This is WAR!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
As far as I know I am the only builder and seller of CBG's in my area. I have stuff in 2 guitar shops ( a good distance from each other - no competition) and I do have a new website ( cuz sooooo many people ask for it). Most of my sales come from going to local festivals of one sort or another with in a 50 mile er so range.
At the last blugrass festival, there were 2 other music stores with booths. One local to me ( 5 min.) the other 1/2 hour away. One talked to me and is now carrying my stuff, the other ( local) kept sending their kid over to spy. Thru the course of the day, he looked at every instrument and price tag I had.
In a week er so I'm gonna go visit the shop to "buy" a cheap set of strings or something ..... but I expect to see a cbg hangin' on his wall. I have already been warned about this guy and he's been in business less than 6 months!
Matt - it's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milkbone drawers!
This fellow sell dulcimers, can-jos, a couple of new products that I ENCOURAGED him to sell,amps etc.No good deed goes unpunished???
I just sell basic 3 string fretless CBGS, amps and pickups.The basics that most anyone can afford in this market.
I've never sold Can-jos.
Because we're in the same building I've avoided encroaching on his part of the market.This week I was informed that he has decided he will sell CBG's too,and yes he has them is his shop.Which forces me to do what I didnt want to do and thats sell can-jo's also.
I build and sell all my own product so I can only turn out so much of whatever I sell.This guy has some one that builds for him and mostly all he does himself is sit in his shop and hawk all day.
Since he has decided the thing to do is sell what I sell, it's going to be rough.
I'm trying to set up somebody that can build the can-jo's for me as unless I give up the rest of the sleep I had already given up, I just cant crank em out fast enough.
I dont say this to complain, well maybe a little bit but to give you another side of the business you may not be aware of.'
There are unscrupulous people out there,and if you have good success like I have had the last year or so your going to have people literally trying to put you out of business.
My former partner (I'm glad I got out) is out to do me in.This is the side of business you have to look out for also.I've always tried to run an honest business and offer good service at the TIME of sale plus help and assistance later AFTER the sale if my customer needed it.Thats not my former partners way of thinking.
Anyway , its a tough business, I found quickly when I started that I couldnt sell high dollar in my market, so I sell what the market will support here.And I've done ok, so far.But I cant compete with the " bring product in in high numbers that SOMBODY ELSE built, sell it ,forget about the customer" thinking I'm competing with right now.
SO you still want to get into the business?? LOL
I started intending only to sell a few here and there, and it just exploded, it got to the point last summer that I could not build fast enough to keep up with sales, as long as I stayed true to this market.But my success has bred a copy cat that has product build else where and sells here.I cant build that fast.
So, I'm trying to line up one of us guys that has the time to build can-jo's ( that I dont even really WANT to sell ) to stay in business.
This fellow doesnt "do" the internet , he has OTHER people do it for him ,and most of his building, so I have my work cut out for me.I'm not sure if I can pull this off, I KNOW I cant by myself. So we'll see what happens.
But my intention here is to let you know that the business has a way of either going great or you find a copycat at your back door trying to cut your throat.
Good luck on whatever way you decide to sell, just be aware that its not as easy as it looks , and there are people that will want what you have if you do well, and will do whatever they have to do to get it.
The important thing is the obsession with making instruments. Anything else that comes out of it, be it money, business, endorsements, fame, or whatever else is just a side effect of that obsession. Even if I had never gotten anywhere, if I had gotten no notoriety - if I hadn't sold a damned instrument, I'd still be right there in my shop with a hunk of wood and some hand tools.
Well I can tell you, you make beautiful instruments make you a very respected person here, that's for sure. There [in my humble opinion] is a short list of great builders here on the Nation and you are on that list. Thanks for your first person insight.
Cheers Josh
-WY
When I started, the idea was to sell what I could so that I could afford to make more. Nobody had ever heard of me, I had no reputation, so nothing sold until I knocked the prices down so far that I was selling at a loss. At that point things started selling and, as my rep grew, I slowly moved the prices back up to what I felt would be fair. Keep in mind I'm still selling them at a fraction of what I've seen some other guys sell their guitars for but I'm at least now getting a comfortable profit on them. Even so, after the materials and tools that I buy to reinvest back into what I do, I about break even.
In the end, that's about all you can hope for. I have a well equipped shop at my house now that has everything I need to make a hand crafted, top of the line solid body guitar and it was all paid for by CBGs. At some point, when I decide I'm finished buying tools, I'll probably use the money to take my wife and I on a cruise, but I'll never make enough to support a family or retire. My output is between 12 to 20 instruments a year (because I refuse to turn out more than that) averaging between $300 and $800 or so per instrument. So if you average that ($550) and multiply it by the best case (20), we're talking $11,000 in one year - a large portion of which is swallowed up in the parts and materials for each instrument. I easily do better than that in 2 months at my regular day job. Seriously, I have no illusions about going big time with what I do.
The biggest payoff I've gotten in doing this is being able to get really connected to the musical community. Basically, connecting with you guys. Also, all the concerts I've been involved in as a vendor or sponsor. My wife and I have gotten to spend evenings with all sorts famous performers and enjoy concerts in a way that most people only dream of. All of this has happened because, for whatever reason, other people have decided that I am cool because I make electric guitars. That's just fine with me but we all know the truth: we're really just music nerds with an off the wall hobby.
I guess the best I have for you is that doing this with a mind towards making money just isn't gonna get you anywhere. Even if you just want to fund your hobby, there's still a long, hard slog to convince people to buy your stuff. You really have to do something to set yourself apart if you want to get any steam built up. My first few guitars were sold on ebay and a lot of times the auctions would expire. These days I have so much work backed up that posting anything on eBay would just get in my way. I stopped selling bridges and custom necks for that very reason. They were fine for a money supplement when things were slow but they're just a damned distraction when you got guitars to build. Sure I'm doing alright now but I'm telling you, if I had started this out thinking I was going to make a living at it (basically only worried about trying to make money) I never would have gotten this far. I would have given up a long, long time ago in frustration. The important thing is the obsession with making instruments. Anything else that comes out of it, be it money, business, endorsements, fame, or whatever else is just a side effect of that obsession. Even if I had never gotten anywhere, if I had gotten no notoriety - if I hadn't sold a damned instrument, I'd still be right there in my shop with a hunk of wood and some hand tools.
That is without a doubt a major factor in becoming successful in this crazy obsession called (CBG's).
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