Came across a video regarding a CBG where the builder talked about how it had a treble bleed circuit to maintain the treble whether the volume pot was at 1 or 10. Never knew about this phenomenon so I did a little research. My question is do many builders bother with such and which method (capacitor, capacitor + resistor in parallel or in series) do they use. I understand the capacitor and resitor has to be of a certain value but I don't know if it's standard or dependent. Any more info appreciated.
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I have talked to players. Some of these players have multiple guitars with treble bleeds. Asked on line and did as much reading as possible. The tone pot works like it should. The main problem with treble bleeds is not pairing up or using what's best for the pickups you have. It's best to try making your own. Find what combination or just a single cap may work best for your pickups. Or what your wanting out of the circuit.
There are three types of treble bleeds. Fist is just a cap. Second is a cap and resistor wired in parallel. Third is a cap and resistor wired in series. Each have different effects on the volume and at what frequency they start working.
What works for one pickup wont work well for another.
I've only used the cap by itself. And the guitar in they were in the tone pots were used as variable coil taps. I matched the cap to the full humbucker. So when the variable coil tap was all the way to single coil it wasn't brash or harsh sounding when the volume was turned down. Unfortunately that is the one guitar that got stollen. So at the moment I don't have it to do a sound clip.
Plan on having this circuit in every guitar I make. So I prepared an inventory of parts. The caps I have are, 0.001, 0.0022, 0.022 and 0.047. The resistors I have are 100, 120, 150, 200, 220. 270 and 330. I'll wire the guitar up. Then use alligator clips to choose from a pre made set combo of each one of these. Caps by themselves, caps wired in parallel and caps in series. Do this for every tone pot in the guitar. Because some humbucker sets will have Alnico 5's in the bridge and Alnico 2's in the neckbucker. In ever guitar except my 'Cosmic Glider'. It has volume pots only for both pickups. I usually run them between 5 and 7. Using the natural roll off of the treble. Then turning them up to not only get louder but add a bit of bite to the sound.
The cap by itself is the high pass filter i was speaking of earlier. it will clear up a muddy sounding pickup which is usually the neck pickup in a dark toned body.
The purpose of the Treble Bleed Circuit is to maintain a certain amount of treble throughout the tone pot's sweep. That in itself is a change to how the tone pot works. The tone pot will work, just not the way it does originally.
There's many ways to achieve what you want electronically and understand it. Everyone should look at all the ways to do it before choosing the most popular. Like Cause The Blue Rat Said, it doesn't work the same in every guitar because every guitar will sound different.
I not trying to get on every bodies nerve or poop on their ideas, just trying to show other ways of doing what your wanting to accomplish..
Taff is correct Paul, a treble bleed goes on the volume pot and prevents loss of high frequencies as the volume is turned down. Maybe you're thinking of another mod?
Here's a great explanation of treble bleed circuits.
Thanks Korrigan, referring to "ratties" suggestion re matching blead circuits to the pickup, I see that there is a variable circuit available that can be fitted to the volume pot. This may allow better/easier matching.
Taff
Gibson came out with many models of guitars with Varitone switches to change the caps, add resistors and even a small transistor to the choice of the player(all ideas of Les Paul) and these can be good(found mostly on ES models and Blueshawk). But a lot of people find that they only like some of those choices and all the different choices can be intimidating to some and confusing to others that might choice the wrong one by mistake.
That's why I made a small one with only 3 choices.
Now I'm confused Paul, you refer to treble effects of the tone pot, when the modification is to the volume pot. I understand it's reason is to limit the loss off treble frequencies set by the tone pot when turning down the volume, with the volume pot.
There are always more than one way to skin a cat, but like my customers I like quick, easy, low cost options, and easily reversible.
cheers Taff
Since the tone circuit is an off-shoot of the volume pot, both are interactive. Mods done to one will also affect the other to some degree.
A cap only across the terminals or inline with pickup to volume is a high pass filter that limits some frequency in the signal from pickup to the volume/tone circuit to cut "mud" in a dark/muffled neck pickup.
A cap with a resistor adds resistor value to the pot which is a variable resistor. Results in higher treble in the overall volume, but because it's pared with the cap, it effects the tone circuit by cutting out some of the high-mids, low-mids and some lows. This is why a lot of players(professional and home players) will have a volume only or no-load tone circuit. You could get more treble with higher value pots(use 500k for single coils/1meg for doubles), but still get some lows and mids if wanted with 100% sweep.
The popularity of the treble bleed circuits can be about it's cost, ease of installation, both or simply because many others are doing it. There are many ways to get the same result.
1. I have a varitone type circuit in one guitar that works great. It has a 3-way switch on/off/on with 2 tone caps on each side(.022 or .033) to choose from while middle off selection cuts the tone circuit. This gives me 2 levels of set tone and bright volume only if needed for 3 choices of sound and 100% use of tone pot sweep in the on positions. This can be done with a mini toggle switch and whatever value of caps you wish.
2. Use the higher value volume and tone pots, use lower value tone caps and the use of other wiring schemes.
This can all be confusing about the electronics which is another reason for the popularity of the treble bleed circuits and it does add more treble, but it comes at a price of less mids, some lows and versatility.
A treble bleed circuit cuts the usefulness of a tone circuit to half. Might as well not even have a tone circuit. If you need/want that much treble, you can just have a volume only setup or simply change the pots to higher value or the tone caps to a lower value.
If you have a muddy or woofy tone from a pickup, then a high pass filter is the way to go. At least your tone circuit would work at 100% that way.
It really surprises me how many players these days don't know how to use volume and tone circuits to their full effect. Everybody puts them both on full and then wonders why they can't get more volume or brightness when needed. Can't get that Eric Clapton Woman Tone with a treble bleed circuit.
Elijah, forgot to mention those values are for a 500k ohm volume pot
Hi Eliah, I just got some parts delivered and amongst them were these Treble Blead circuits, already wired up. I have never noticed any problems when using the system but I will take note in light of Pauls comments.
Taff
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