Posted by Will Carter on October 1, 2009 at 7:09am
Ok, to make a CBG with sympathetic strings, I need to know a couple of things.
The plans I have scavanged so far suggest twelve strings (presumably each tuned to a note of the western scale) - so question 1 is: Does it matter which octave the sympathetic strings are tuned to?
I think that as long as the freq is the same they will vibrate, but if not then my design will have to have a hollow neck to get the correct length.
And 2. Zither pins - has anyone got any tips on how to tune these silly things properly eg need a bridge and nut or straight tailpiece to zither pin?
You need to be a member of Cigar Box Nation to add comments!
:)
Thanks Brian! Yes please I love rules and guidelines so at least I know what I am breaking!
It's just a lot of work for possibly no result...eg stringing the sympathetics at right angles to the neck in the box itself or inside a neck channel etc...hmmm the more I look the more I need to learn :)
1st Zither pins. Sure string stretch is a problem with all new strings and tuning devices ( I think they are called "levers"?). It could be said that the Zither pins are "jerky" and not "geared down" like machine heads. I have tapped the tuner handle and even added a longer handle via a suitable piece of pipe. I seem to think that once the strings have stretched, then "patience with perhaps some quiet oaths" will help!!!
Re the tuning of the sympathetic s. i have looked up my books and cant get a real definitive recommendation, but these are some principles i have pulled out.
1. Ideally the sympathetic strings should be strung longer than the string length of the playing strings.
2. They should be tuned to a "higher" pitch than the playing strings. This will facilitate their sounding between notes.
3. the sympathetic strings should be tuned within an octave of each other.
4. There seems to be no problem in tuning 2 sympathetic strings to the the same note... i.e. d,d,
Finally and i hesitate to give this advice to such an experienced CBG maker, but experienced CBG makers gave me this advice........ NO RULES :)
Gee that makes me feel good!!!
If you want me to research it some more, please let me know, because sometimes rules are quite helpful!!
I wonder if your frustration with zithers pins may just be due to string stretch. Provided that the holes you are using are snug enough to hold the pins securely, it may just take some time for the strings to settle in. I had a psaltry, and a harp(38 string Salvi) which both used pins and once new strings stopped stretching, the tuning was very stable.
Cool thanks Ben - thats the kind of info I need - now to check my piano :)
Ben said:
I believe the sympathetic strings should be tuned at least equal to, if not higher than the unsympathetic (they're so mean) strings are tuned. They shouldn't be lower. I've never worked with sympathetic strings but I'm just pulling this from what I know about the overtone series. If you have access to a real piano, depress the sustain pedal and play a low note. You'll hear a lot more overtones than if you play a higher note because if the strings are lower than the played note they won't resonate as well.
Thanks Brian - Yup I got the tool but keeping the f@#$ in tune is turning out to be painful - I may opt out and use regular geared machine heads as they at least seem more stable - perhaps it is the drill bit I am using is too big or not tapered or reverse wound or something else peculier....hmmm
I believe the sympathetic strings should be tuned at least equal to, if not higher than the unsympathetic (they're so mean) strings are tuned. They shouldn't be lower. I've never worked with sympathetic strings but I'm just pulling this from what I know about the overtone series. If you have access to a real piano, depress the sustain pedal and play a low note. You'll hear a lot more overtones than if you play a higher note because if the strings are lower than the played note they won't resonate as well.
If you go by the construction of Lutes and Theorbos (Which really do not have sympathetic strings rather augmented bass strings) They run strings from the peg box to a guitar like fixed bridge where the string ends.
From memory i seem to think that those instruments that have truly sympathetic strings almost always have a bridge of some kind.
As I am in throes of making hurdy gurdy, there are some of those that have sympathetic strings and they too have bridges.
I just think of Zither pins as tuning pegs/machine heads and treat them the same, but of course you use a tool to turn them.
Replies
Thanks Brian! Yes please I love rules and guidelines so at least I know what I am breaking!
It's just a lot of work for possibly no result...eg stringing the sympathetics at right angles to the neck in the box itself or inside a neck channel etc...hmmm the more I look the more I need to learn :)
Re the tuning of the sympathetic s. i have looked up my books and cant get a real definitive recommendation, but these are some principles i have pulled out.
1. Ideally the sympathetic strings should be strung longer than the string length of the playing strings.
2. They should be tuned to a "higher" pitch than the playing strings. This will facilitate their sounding between notes.
3. the sympathetic strings should be tuned within an octave of each other.
4. There seems to be no problem in tuning 2 sympathetic strings to the the same note... i.e. d,d,
Finally and i hesitate to give this advice to such an experienced CBG maker, but experienced CBG makers gave me this advice........ NO RULES :)
Gee that makes me feel good!!!
If you want me to research it some more, please let me know, because sometimes rules are quite helpful!!
With smiles.... Brian
Ben said:
From memory i seem to think that those instruments that have truly sympathetic strings almost always have a bridge of some kind.
As I am in throes of making hurdy gurdy, there are some of those that have sympathetic strings and they too have bridges.
I just think of Zither pins as tuning pegs/machine heads and treat them the same, but of course you use a tool to turn them.