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  • Keni Lee Burgess May 9, 2011 at 1:24pm

    Hello Michael,

    Yes, we are just comparing notes and having a lively conversation. All constructive comments. :)

    In no way either do I want to discourage your explorations. It is just that I have been giving this subject some thought for a long time now, and feel that a gbe approach does not offer a very logical and logistical method. I certainly could be wrong. There are no rules here.

    I agree a collection of simple three chord songs would be helpful for beginners. Although, I think the arrangements should be musically correct and offer the option to create more advanced renditions building upon the earlier simple songs. This is done all the time when teaching standard guitar too. 

    I definitely want players to have fun and find it easy, but as a music teacher, I feel it is better to learn correctly. I look at CBG as a wonderful learning tool that can stand alone by itself as a "real" instrument or it can be used as a stepping stone to any other string instument of your choice.

    I geatly appreciate your posting of this discussion and the feedback it provides me. Thank you. Always learning. Enjoy, Keni Lee        

  • Michael Glenn May 9, 2011 at 12:19pm

    Hey Keni Lee,

     

    I hope I'm not giving the impression that I think your approach is flawed.  I know from other threads that a ton of people here are benefiting from your lessons.  The reason I went with gbe tuning is because it seemed like a logical place for me to start from.  I did also work out basic 1, 4, 5, and 2, 3, 6 chords for open tunings, but I don't have a lot of experience playing that way.  I started on 6 string acoustic but the strings hurt my fingers so I quickly changed over to ukulele and that's what I learned on. (And ukulele is tuned gcea, and the cea translates easily into gbe.)

     

    To me, gbe tuning makes it easy to create chords and to play melodies - but like I said I haven't played with any other tunings so it may be that another choice would work better.

     

    I made the chord chart because I couldn't find one anywhere, and because it's the easiest way for me to learn the very basics.  I agree anyone could find the chords they want, if they know all the notes.  I just want to make things as easy as possible for the beginner, which includes me in this case!

     

    I'd definitely be willing to play a simple follow up to your video in gbe tuning.  I think it'd be a good way to start comparing different tunings and help others hear what they sound like.

     

    Michael

  • Michael Glenn May 9, 2011 at 12:07pm

    Hi swampapple,

     

    1, 4 5 are the three "basic" chords that are used in just about every song.  They're 3 chords that just sound good together.  They're the basic building blocks for blues, folk, rock, pop, and other styles.

     

    If you check out http://www.101cigarboxguitarsongs.com/song-list.html you'll find a number of songs that use just these 3 chords.  Each song tells you when to change to the I, IV or V.  The chord charts are on that site too.  Just learn 3 chord shapes and you can play any of the songs I've got there.

     

    I don't have anything on strumming or picking, or any advanced stuff, but you can pretty much do whatever you like if you're just starting.  I've only seen one or two of Keni Lee's videos so far but I know from reading other threads that he's really good at teaching more advanced stuff.  I just put that website together for people who want it as simple as possible.

     

    Let me know if you find it helpful,

    Michael

  • Keni Lee Burgess May 9, 2011 at 7:54am

    Hello Michael,

    Certainly there are endless approaches to stringing and tuning CBGs. A standard guitar's tuning (EADgbe) utilizes a system of movable chords in the following basic chord shapes: CAGED. This makes it possible to get the same chord (inversion of the scale tones) in various positions on the fingerboard. It is logical and easy to find the chords you need. The ADf# tuning offers the same approach. Have you seen my basic chord chart? http://www.cigarboxnation.com/photo/a-basic-chord-chart-for-3?conte... 

    Although, you have found the chords for the gbe tuning , I am interested to hear how your arrangements work out and sound.

    I am planning a video soon of Robert Johnson's They're Red Hot. It has a simple chord progression of:

    C A D7 G7 C / C C7 F Ab7

    If you like, after I post the video, please play along and tell me how it worked out in gbe tuning.

    Actually, I am not inventing anything new. You can find the same chord approach in traditional bluegrass banjo too. They use gDgbd tuning. The 513 interval is here g(Dgb)d. I am applying this approach in this video too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLycajdnlgU&feature=channel_vide...

    I posted these lessons for player's who wanted a method to strum chords just like a standard 6 string. Considering there is only 3 basic moveable chord shapes (root found on each string) that can be altered easily into other chords, minor, 7th, etc, it is a rather effective approach. A full chord book could be generated, but in my mind, if you can name the notes of the strings, you can find any chord you need.

    Thank you for the discussion, Keni Lee           

     

     

     

  • Michael Glenn May 8, 2011 at 8:00pm

    Hey Keni,

     

    You mentioned that GBE tuning doesn't allow for creating a system of chords.  (Which I have verified I should be saying gbe, because I'm talking about the 3 highest strings on a standard guitar.)

     

    I'm not sure I follow you completely.  Did you mean that as far as playing slide is concerned, or were you talking about overall you can't create chords with GBe tuning.  The reason I ask is because after our discussion I sat down and looked at the scale for GBe tuning and have worked out charts for all Major, minor, aug, dim, and 7 chords.  (I had to cheat on the 7 chords, since I've only got 3 strings to work with - each one is a 7 minus the root.)


    Anyway I put the chart up in the How to Play section:

     

    http://www.cigarboxnation.com/group/playing/forum/topics/chord-char...

     

    Now that I got that worked out, I'm gonna check out your videos.

     

    Michael

     

    Keni Lee Burgess said:

    Hello Michael,

    In any given key the chords formed from the Major scale go like this:

    1-Major 2-minor 3-minor 4-Major 5-Major 6-minor 7-dimished 8-major (octave)

    Additionally, Major/minor chords require 3 tones to make a chord. (135  / 1flat35)

    Two notes are intervals or commomly known as doublestops or power chords (bass strings). They are simply fragements of chords.

    GBE tuning does not really offer the possibility of creating a system of chords.

    I have found through my explorations, ADf# / 513  tunings works well. This is open D tuning.

    Have you seen this series of lessons that are currently posted on my page?

    I plan to design a chord chart to accompany the lessons, but I feel that just by learning the 3 basic shapes (major and minor) and knowing the notes of the strings, it is relatively easy to find any chord you need. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qlx7ico8Zo&feature=channel_vide...

    Another simply solution would be to build a 4 string and just tune it like the 4 highest strings of a standard 6 (Dgbe). Then standard chord charts could be utilized. Although, this is not completely optimal, it offers a very quick and easy approach.

    Thank you for sharing your ideas, Keni Lee

     

  • Michael Glenn May 8, 2011 at 3:10am
    Awesome!  I'm glad I'm able to help.
  • Paul H (PRH) May 7, 2011 at 10:24am

    Thanks,

    This type of information is really helpful.

    PRH

  • Michael Glenn May 6, 2011 at 1:49am

    Here's some songs set up to go along with the chord chart.  Just learn I, IV and V and you can play these songs until your wife/mother-in-law/room-mate/whatever tells you to knock off all that dagnabbit noise!

    http://101cigarboxguitarsongs.weebly.com/song-list.html

    I don't have 101 songs up yet, but I will.. I will.

  • Keni Lee Burgess May 5, 2011 at 5:18pm

    Hello Michael,

    Thank you for your response. There are certainly unlimited ways you can approach playing CBG. I encourage your explorations. There is Gold to be found if you look for it yourself. 

    I stumbled upon the open D (ADf#) tuning while playing in Open G (GDG) tuning.

    I didn't want to have to change strings, but I wanted a tuning that had all three major chord tones (triad).

    Turned two buttons and like magic...That's why I nicknamed it, "Devil Tuning" After Robert Johnson's unknown man at the Cross Roads who "retuned" his guitar. 

    Please check out the videos (earlier post). These explorations were in response to players who wanted to strum chords like a regular guitar. Something I don't ordinary do. 

    The regular guitar is a compensated tuning (Each string higher is a 4th above, except for the g to b which is a 3rd). Makes for a great system of movable chords based on these five chords CAGED.

    Using a major triad, (I choose 513 because it is part of the 3 basic 6 string open tunings)

    Open D DADf#ad (1"513"51)

    Open G DGDgbd (51"513"5)

    Open C CGCgce (151"513")

    Where as playing on a 6 string in different keys can be very tricky in a specific open tuning key (If you play in Open D arranging in the 5th (A) works well too because the the 5th for the key of A (E) is across the second fret and the 4th (D) is the open strings), on a 3 string all the chords are completely movable and there are no dissonant notes to get in your way. Regardless, this study made my understanding of the 6 string better too.

    I appreciate that you took the time to read and chat. Enjoy your practice, Keni Lee

               

  • Michael Glenn May 5, 2011 at 4:15pm

    Hey Keni,

     

    Great info on chord formation.  I'm a piano player at heart, and building chords on the piano is a lot easier.  I tried my best to work out actual chords for what I actually should call gbe tuning I guess, instead of GBE (still learning), and the best I could do on some of them was to go for power chords or chord fragments, figuring they'd still be great for playing accompaniment. 

     

    And I couldn't figure any easy way to form diminished chords for the vii, so I just left it out.  I decided that for a beginner, knowing the 1-6 chords would still let me play a ton of songs, and I could tackle more complex stuff later on, after I'm comfortable with the instrument.

     

    RayTheOtherRay, thanks much for the added info.  I'd been approaching gbe chords figuring I'd only play in the key of G, but from what you're saying it looks like I don't have to limit myself to playing in just one key, even on a 3 string.  I suddenly feel I have much more to learn than I suspected.  It does occur to me though that GBe or GBE or gbe or however you're supposed to write it actually sets you up to play in G major and E minor - I just hadn't made that connection until now.

     

    Much thanks to both of you guys.  I hope to keep learning more,

    Michael

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