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Fret Boards, Necks and Truss Rods

Posted by Rich Butters on October 14, 2019 at 10:04am in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion

Hi All, I have just joined and have yet to build my first Cigar Box guitar. At the moment I am doing the research and I have some questions I hope the expert can help with.

For a 3, 4 and 6 string cigar box guitar:

  • What is the length of the fret board? What is the recommended number of frets
  • Do you ‘radius your fretboard’
  • Do you put any type of angle on the neck as some people do for better action? Some cut the rear neck thickness a little more than the front slot so that the tail is raised a little causing the neck head to angle down just a little
  • Do I insert a ‘truss rod’ into the neck

Thank you in advance

Cheers

Rich

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Replies

  • Taffy Evans October 16, 2019 at 3:24am

    Hi, I meant to mention this in my last post, prompted by Tom T's comment about where the fingerboard ends at the body.

    For me that is governed by where the bridge sits on the top of the box. There is a "best" position for the bridge that enables the strings to drive the top more effiently into vibration, which in turn can result in better volume and tone, if building for the best acoustic results. I mention this as you mentioned quality.

    If building your own box, thats what l do, one can get that spot easily. But if you change scale length or box size then that position may move too far back on the top. So if your fingerboard was over the body and you move the bridge forwards thats when I get a fretboard that will end at the start of the box and not overlap it.

    in my box size that puts the bridge a third of the distance up from the tail end.

    This will all make more sense as you learn more about the building whys and wherefore's.

    Sorry to be a bore but bridge placement can be very important in an acoustic CBG. Electric, not so much.

    Taff

    • Rich Butters > Taffy Evans October 17, 2019 at 3:35am

      Hi Taff, I am living in Thailand so I cant get genuine cigar box's here and to import would be a 'nightmare' to get through customs.  I plan to build my own boxes (mahogany, teak or macca wood) so this, again is great information and advice

      Cheers

      Rich

    • Rich Butters > Taffy Evans October 16, 2019 at 9:31am

      Hi Taff,

      Again, great advice.  Thanks again for the information, input and support

      Cheers

      Rich

  • KOOL DOG HOOCH October 15, 2019 at 4:14pm

    Rich, I believe you are asking about a back angle. I'm fairly new to this addiction and all of my builds have a back angle of approximately 3-5° for the reason of string height from the box top. Welcome to the Asylum! Just to let you know I'm jealous of your access to the wood. Anytime you feel like shipping any my way please feel free to do so! Del Puckett back angle video(click here)

    • Rich Butters > KOOL DOG HOOCH October 16, 2019 at 1:40am

      Hi Will, thanks for the response and the info.  This is exactly what I was looking for.  I am in the process of building a small workshop and I have built a guitar yet.  I want to do it correctly and these little details will add that extra bit of quality

      Once again thank you for the advice

      Cheers

      Rich

      • KOOL DOG HOOCH > Rich Butters October 16, 2019 at 10:47am
        1. Another tip I picked up and want to share. On a long piece of paper or cardboard. Layout in full-size your projects side view and plot your angle. That 3/8"drop on a 13" box 'will be' different on a longer or shorter box. Don't over think what you are doing! No one! Gets the first one perfect! But this is part of the learning curve, belive me! 99.9% of the first time builders have said to themselves "I'm not going to be like everyone else, my first one will be flawless!" Well guess what! 99.9% of us were wrong! Just remember this these aren't a new concept, people have been making CBGs at least 100yrs without the technology we have at our desposal. My first finished project "looked" good, but sounded like shit! Took it apart, used the neck, hardware elsewhere and the box I keep in full view(made a clock out of it) to remind me "don't get cocky"!  There are two steadfast rules. The 12th fret is always 1/2 way between the bridge and nut and There are no rules in building CBGs!
        • Rich Butters > KOOL DOG HOOCH October 17, 2019 at 3:30am

          Hi Will, again great advice.  I have started building my workshop and look forward to having a go at my firth guitar

          Cheers

          Rich

      • Tom T > Rich Butters October 16, 2019 at 10:28am

        In reading the various responses, I have begun to wonder if the "back angle" you are referring to is the slight downward angle of the neck (from body to nut) when viewed from the side. In traditional luthier terms, this is what is referred to as back angle. It is usually in the range of 1 to 1.5 degrees (not much)

        Anyway, I've used this back angle on some builds as it leads to a taller bridge and greater string over the bridge. That being said, I have not bothered to cut this angle on any of past dozen or more builds. I can't really see any issues of not doing it. The bridge seems to have enough height to give good string angle, so I'm finding it a tedious angle to cut with no noticeable benefits.

        Hope you can get a lot of mahogany in your carry on bag.

        • Rich Butters > Tom T October 17, 2019 at 3:27am

          Hi Tom, thanks for the response - yes its the back angle from body to nut, Many builders recommend designing it into the guitar 

          Thanks for the advice

          Cheers

          Rich

  • Taffy Evans October 14, 2019 at 5:52pm

    Hi and welcome Rich, all good info here but I would add one important issue to consider for better neck stability, and t is grain orientation.

    I always use quarter sawn timber, which means straight as possible grain going from the top to the bottom of the neck. The top being the surface the fingerboard is glued to. It does mean I have search through the wood stack for longer to find the most suitable samples, Tasmanian oak in my case.

    As an experiment I used a pine neck on a three stringer but inlaid a hardwood reinforcing "bar" in it under the fingerboard, it has remained flat.

    Also Rich as you are new to this game I should mention that the word "rod" may be misleading. Truss rods come in a few styles, trussrods are normally adjustable (adjustable against the pull of the strings). Some are a combination of two rods, and another is one a single rod that has to be installed in a way that will cause it to be able to pull or keep the neck the way you want it.

    I would always go for "reinforcing bars" in my CBG's, if I needed one, a bar of a material than will not bend between my thumbs. The bar has most resistance to bending if higher than it is wide, 1/2x1/4 say.

     Taff 

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