first CBG best sound

Hello,

I just put together my first CBG and I'm needing some advice to get it to sound it's best. First all, here's a pic of the CBG.

I used a neck from a kids size old Harmony acoustic. I had this laying around from a failed resonator project a few years back. I removed the frets, filled the old slots with epoxy then ironed on a piece of Red Oak laminate to the fingerboard and stained it. The tail piece is full size reso tail only bent in half. I used a reso biscuit bridge leftover from when I upgraded my Rogue triolian cone and buiscuit to a National cone and biscuit. That's my hack job, the goal was to spend as little as possible for this project, having most of it laying around...I ended up only spending around $10.

It plays well, not real useful for fingerstyle picking but as a lap steel it sounds great and hella fun to play. I now want to look into amplification. I have some experience with piezo mics and I'm not all that impressed with past efforts as they pickup every little finger scoot and vibration but I'm willing to try them again. As well as it turned out I don't mind spending a little on the pickup so what's the best sound setup you can get?

I also need some advice on where I have the bridge placed. Any benefit to having a different kind of tail piece and moving the bridge further down to open up some finger space on the neck? How about my existing setup? would it make sharper notes with frets installed?

Also what about strings? I have some light gauge acoustic strings on it now. If I used a magnetic pickup would I then have to use electric guitar strings?

I didn't say piezo's make an acoustic sound, i said it was closer to the acoustic sound than a magnetic pickup. Yes a microphone is the one true acoustic amplification but i never claimed it was not, it does have some serious limitations though. Ask every stage preforming musician and he will tell you:" Mixcrophones are for recording, piezo's are for the stage.

And pre-amps are not that expensive anymore, you can buy one from the store for under 40$ (sure its not a fishman or Highlander pickup but then again who needs that on a cbg?) or if that's too much you could build it yourself in a simple cable variant using these parts...

plugschematic.gifhttp:

And this schematic

PreampCable

All you have to do is try, fail and throw away the crap you messed up and start over until you get it right. Just like building a cbg
Don Thompson said:

acoustic sound from a piezo? Hogwash.Ok, some might tell themselves you get an acoustic sound from piezos, utter nonsense, piezos color the sound. True sonic truth.....a good microphone. A preamp for the piezo? Well all of a sudden you are talking about lots more money than a magnetic pickup for any thing worth a damn.
Don

Bluesdog said:
Dude this is your first build? Can't wait to see more!!!

I think you got the bridgeplacement right, most guy's (inc me) place the bridge at about 1/3 of the box and this looks about right on yours. Maybe you could go a little bit further back but you don't have frets now so move it around a little to see where you like the sound best. Mesure the distance of the middle strings between the nut and the bridge and place those mesurements into Stew Mac's onnline fretcalculator and your ready to go fret this beauty. If you fret it correctly (including leveling the frets and dressing them) it should be spot on pitch without being sharp or flat.

I'm a big fan of Piezo pu's so i would put a Piezo in it to amp it up, to some people its all the same but i just like the responce better than on magnetics because it closer to the acoustic sound of the guitar itself. It does have some microfonic issue's but that just takes a little getting used to, once you do you'll be fine and if you use a pre-amp even high vollumes are doable without feedback

Very very very nice build Mr Ernest! Hope to see more in the future, maybe a video?

Replies

Ernest October 19, 2010 at 2:37pm

Thanks for all the great info! I just put up vid of the CBG wired with a piezo. It sounds Ok....but I think eventually I'll want to fancy it up with a new fretboard and inlay as well as a lipstick pickup.

Recorded on my lunch break, I think I may be out of tune....sorry

http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/steamboat-gwine-round-da-bend
David L. October 13, 2010 at 7:53am

Hi Ernest - What a great looking guitar.

Regarding amplification - somebody asked previously regarding the difference in sound between piezo discs, magnetic pickups and a preamp so I did a quick video to show this http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/comparing-cbg-pickups - I am not sure if my noise will help or just put you off guitars for life ;O)

If you opt for a preamp you can pick them up cheap off ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Acoustic-Guitar-EQ-7545R-Piezo-Pickup-Preamp-... for $11.88 or perhaps a bit cheaper if you bid for one - but at these prices you will be looking at one from overseas so it will involve postage delay and a pain in the backside if it gets lost or damaged in transit. CB Gitty is in the USA (and a member of CBN) and you can get what looks like the same preamp for $14,99 http://www.cbgitty.com/cubecart/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=29 (not sure about postage) and he has a very good reputation for quaility goods and customer service.

One big problem with piezos is that typical guitar tone controls pots have little effect.

These "passive" preamps again from overseas on ebay are infact a passive tone filter/volume control and come with a under saddle type piezo and do work quite well - currently $7.69 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Acoustic-Guitar-Piezo-Pickup-Passive-Preamp-S... - they were discussed here http://www.cigarboxnation.com/group/cbgwiringelectronics/forum/topi...

For either of these types of preamp it is easy to use them with a disc piezo if you prefer - you just need to solder the disc to a 2.5mm jackplug and they plug into the preamp instead of the undersaddle piezo.

I personally prefer the sound of a magnetic pickup but tend to put both into anything I make so I have the option of either or both.
Bluesdog October 13, 2010 at 2:30am

I didn't say piezo's make an acoustic sound, i said it was closer to the acoustic sound than a magnetic pickup. Yes a microphone is the one true acoustic amplification but i never claimed it was not, it does have some serious limitations though. Ask every stage preforming musician and he will tell you:" Mixcrophones are for recording, piezo's are for the stage.

And pre-amps are not that expensive anymore, you can buy one from the store for under 40$ (sure its not a fishman or Highlander pickup but then again who needs that on a cbg?) or if that's too much you could build it yourself in a simple cable variant using these parts...

And this schematic

All you have to do is try, fail and throw away the crap you messed up and start over until you get it right. Just like building a cbg
Don Thompson said:
acoustic sound from a piezo? Hogwash.Ok, some might tell themselves you get an acoustic sound from piezos, utter nonsense, piezos color the sound. True sonic truth.....a good microphone. A preamp for the piezo? Well all of a sudden you are talking about lots more money than a magnetic pickup for any thing worth a damn.
Don

Bluesdog said:
Dude this is your first build? Can't wait to see more!!!

I think you got the bridgeplacement right, most guy's (inc me) place the bridge at about 1/3 of the box and this looks about right on yours. Maybe you could go a little bit further back but you don't have frets now so move it around a little to see where you like the sound best. Mesure the distance of the middle strings between the nut and the bridge and place those mesurements into Stew Mac's onnline fretcalculator and your ready to go fret this beauty. If you fret it correctly (including leveling the frets and dressing them) it should be spot on pitch without being sharp or flat.

I'm a big fan of Piezo pu's so i would put a Piezo in it to amp it up, to some people its all the same but i just like the responce better than on magnetics because it closer to the acoustic sound of the guitar itself. It does have some microfonic issue's but that just takes a little getting used to, once you do you'll be fine and if you use a pre-amp even high vollumes are doable without feedback

Very very very nice build Mr Ernest! Hope to see more in the future, maybe a video?
Don Thompson October 12, 2010 at 7:55pm

acoustic sound from a piezo? Hogwash.Ok, some might tell themselves you get an acoustic sound from piezos, utter nonsense, piezos color the sound. True sonic truth.....a good microphone. A preamp for the piezo? Well all of a sudden you are talking about lots more money than a magnetic pickup for any thing worth a damn.
Don

Bluesdog said:
Dude this is your first build? Can't wait to see more!!!

I think you got the bridgeplacement right, most guy's (inc me) place the bridge at about 1/3 of the box and this looks about right on yours. Maybe you could go a little bit further back but you don't have frets now so move it around a little to see where you like the sound best. Mesure the distance of the middle strings between the nut and the bridge and place those mesurements into Stew Mac's onnline fretcalculator and your ready to go fret this beauty. If you fret it correctly (including leveling the frets and dressing them) it should be spot on pitch without being sharp or flat.

I'm a big fan of Piezo pu's so i would put a Piezo in it to amp it up, to some people its all the same but i just like the responce better than on magnetics because it closer to the acoustic sound of the guitar itself. It does have some microfonic issue's but that just takes a little getting used to, once you do you'll be fine and if you use a pre-amp even high vollumes are doable without feedback

Very very very nice build Mr Ernest! Hope to see more in the future, maybe a video?
Ernest October 12, 2010 at 2:42pm

Bluesdog said:
I'm a big fan of Piezo pu's so i would put a Piezo in it to amp it up, to some people its all the same but i just like the responce better than on magnetics because it closer to the acoustic sound of the guitar itself. It does have some microfonic issue's but that just takes a little getting used to, once you do you'll be fine and if you use a pre-amp even high vollumes are doable without feedback

Very very very nice build Mr Ernest! Hope to see more in the future, maybe a video?

good point here, I don't want to diminish that cigar box sound. I may have to hook up a peizo first and see how I like it. I'll be posting a vid or two once I get it plugged in.
Bluesdog October 12, 2010 at 10:41am

Dude this is your first build? Can't wait to see more!!!

I think you got the bridgeplacement right, most guy's (inc me) place the bridge at about 1/3 of the box and this looks about right on yours. Maybe you could go a little bit further back but you don't have frets now so move it around a little to see where you like the sound best. Mesure the distance of the middle strings between the nut and the bridge and place those mesurements into Stew Mac's onnline fretcalculator and your ready to go fret this beauty. If you fret it correctly (including leveling the frets and dressing them) it should be spot on pitch without being sharp or flat.

I'm a big fan of Piezo pu's so i would put a Piezo in it to amp it up, to some people its all the same but i just like the responce better than on magnetics because it closer to the acoustic sound of the guitar itself. It does have some microfonic issue's but that just takes a little getting used to, once you do you'll be fine and if you use a pre-amp even high vollumes are doable without feedback

Very very very nice build Mr Ernest! Hope to see more in the future, maybe a video?
Ernest October 12, 2010 at 9:17am

I think I've got an idea how to proceed. Never used flat wound strings but sounds like a plan.

thanks!
Don Thompson October 11, 2010 at 10:00pm

Very nice, clean looking guitar. Screw the piezos, go with a magnetic pickup. A guitar this nice demands a decent pickup. Heck even a el cheapo chino pickup will work better than a piezo. And yes, if you really want to go all out, find some flat wound strings, yes they cost more, but dude, that's art. You'll thank me later. What they call nickel wounds are really steel plated with nickel and yes the string to string balance is better. Go with some electrics at first, then move up to flat wounds. Don't make me coming looking for you if you put a piezo in that.
Don
Craig Cox October 11, 2010 at 4:56pm

since your nut is fixed, bridge placement will determine scale length. you might look into a bridge-mounted piezo to limit some of the stray sounds picked up by the disc variety. there are some available (rod and disc styles) from folks on the site.

This reply was deleted.