My sister in law used to make purses out of cigar boxes. She gave me a box(s) where she had glued identical boxes back to back. They are nice boxes and I was thinking about opening up part of the joined bottoms and making a double deep CBG. Any reason why I shouldn’t? I would guess that the sound might be a little amplified by the increased volume.
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Finished the build. Here it is warts and all. First fret job too. It sounds louder and deeper than my first build. Not sure how much the double box contributes to that. It sounds pretty good and that’s what matters. Learned a lot from this build. Lots of “ character” built in to it. Thanks to all for the encouragement and advice.
Thanks Taff. Interesting stuff. I did some research and it seems there are so many variables (and opinions) that it is more of an art than a science. This discussion has aroused my curiosity and I bought The Luthiers Handbook so I can learn more about how all this stuff works together and hopefully be more educated with my design choices. As you suggestedl, I’m going to leave this build as is. Next build has a totally different box type than my first builds - so the experimenting continues! Thanks again for your help.
Since it is a double box, the back is a lid. I could put in two more sound holes and open up the back to get the debris out. Half of me wants to try it to see what happens. The other half wants me to leave well enough alone since it sounds fine to me.
Taffy Evans > Michael shraderApril 3, 2019 at 6:54pm
Hi Michael, thanks Tim.
Rule of thumb? There proberebly is a math that would help get it right every time. But I cant count too well so that's no good to me.
In acoustic guitars this ratio was worked out back in the day of the first guitars and the soundhole size does change with the sizes of and volume of the body, classical guitar 3 1/4" to large steel string 4'' diameter, give or take.
I'll try to keep this short. When the soundhole is in proper proportion to the body size the sound you hear will sound more bass if made smaller and sound more treble if larger. If covered up the sound is muffled/restricted. The sound you hear then would be coming off of the tops face and the strings. You miss much of the harmonics and overtones in the soundwaves bouncing around in the body.
Before building my first cbg [a commission] I made 3 others experimenting with sound hole size and body size. Having found what worked I could then play with sizes and shapes and still be in the ball park. Michael, I would not change what you have but modify the next one and look for improved output and tone.
I have not read this anywhere but my thinking is that it may also depend on how responsive the top is, how quick or efficient it is at producing soundwaves, as to what size soundhole to use. An example might be, if the top is too thick or overly braced to produce strong resonant frequencies in he body, then the soundhole may not have the same effect on that sound.
Another example is if I put a lighted candle in front of one of my guitars [if built as responsive as possible] tapping on the tops face will force enough air through the ideal sized soundholehole to blow the candle out. Not really relevant to CBG, just thought I'd add it to show how things work, even if on a smaller scale.
Thanks Tim and Taff. Taff, is there a rule of thumb regarding sound hole size? Would adding more sound holes of the same size help? I was thinking that more or bigger sound holes would affect the sound negatively as the area of the sound board would be reduced.
Taff would have a better answer but sound holes also let the sound out. you can go too big but also too small. if the sound is good to you and the volume is fine then dont mess with it. enjoy and maybe experiment with the next one...and the one after that...and the one after that...
Timothy Hunter > Michael shraderApril 2, 2019 at 11:01am
turned out quite nice. great job.
Taffy Evans > Timothy HunterApril 3, 2019 at 2:54am
That looks great Michael, if you are in to improving the next one #3, may I suggest if the box is of similar dimensions, try a larger soundhole area, I think you will experience even more improvement. But what you have done here looks great.
I've done 5 builds using the sandwich method great way to get a better sound from the thinner boxes , I've a few thinner boxes here I'm planning on doing them the same way ..have fun
Replies
Finished the build. Here it is warts and all. First fret job too. It sounds louder and deeper than my first build. Not sure how much the double box contributes to that. It sounds pretty good and that’s what matters. Learned a lot from this build. Lots of “ character” built in to it. Thanks to all for the encouragement and advice.
Hi Michael, thanks Tim.
Rule of thumb? There proberebly is a math that would help get it right every time. But I cant count too well so that's no good to me.
In acoustic guitars this ratio was worked out back in the day of the first guitars and the soundhole size does change with the sizes of and volume of the body, classical guitar 3 1/4" to large steel string 4'' diameter, give or take.
I'll try to keep this short. When the soundhole is in proper proportion to the body size the sound you hear will sound more bass if made smaller and sound more treble if larger. If covered up the sound is muffled/restricted. The sound you hear then would be coming off of the tops face and the strings. You miss much of the harmonics and overtones in the soundwaves bouncing around in the body.
Before building my first cbg [a commission] I made 3 others experimenting with sound hole size and body size. Having found what worked I could then play with sizes and shapes and still be in the ball park. Michael, I would not change what you have but modify the next one and look for improved output and tone.
I have not read this anywhere but my thinking is that it may also depend on how responsive the top is, how quick or efficient it is at producing soundwaves, as to what size soundhole to use. An example might be, if the top is too thick or overly braced to produce strong resonant frequencies in he body, then the soundhole may not have the same effect on that sound.
Another example is if I put a lighted candle in front of one of my guitars [if built as responsive as possible] tapping on the tops face will force enough air through the ideal sized soundholehole to blow the candle out. Not really relevant to CBG, just thought I'd add it to show how things work, even if on a smaller scale.
Hope this helps Taff
Mike
Taff would have a better answer but sound holes also let the sound out. you can go too big but also too small. if the sound is good to you and the volume is fine then dont mess with it. enjoy and maybe experiment with the next one...and the one after that...and the one after that...
turned out quite nice. great job.
That looks great Michael, if you are in to improving the next one #3, may I suggest if the box is of similar dimensions, try a larger soundhole area, I think you will experience even more improvement. But what you have done here looks great.
Taff
I've done 5 builds using the sandwich method great way to get a better sound from the thinner boxes , I've a few thinner boxes here I'm planning on doing them the same way ..have fun
Looks exactly like what I envision mine will look. You will be finished before me so I’ll be interested in how yours will sound.
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