Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by surffrogg on April 3, 2010 at 1:00pm

problem is prolly not the sound holes sam.Is there space between the neck and the bridge?? How thick is the top?? A bit higher action also helps with volume.
Also to big or to many sound holes will actually take away from volume rather then increase

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Permalink Reply by Sam Williams on April 3, 2010 at 2:57pm

Not really sure what you mean, "Is there space between the neck and the bridge?? ". Thanks for the reply

surffrogg said:

problem is prolly not the sound holes sam.Is there space between the neck and the bridge?? How thick is the top?? A bit higher action also helps with volume.
Also to big or to many sound holes will actually take away from volume rather then increase

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on April 3, 2010 at 3:27pm

A single one inch hole is probably ok ..... some may argue , but I have seen times when it didn't seem to make a difference if the box even had holes or not.
He means is there a gap between the top of the box and the top of the neck where it goes thru the box. This allows the top of the box to vibrate much more freely ( just like a regular guitar) and helps with volume.
Try playing without the box snuggled up against your body .. I play with just an edge against my body. Same thing as the gap, more if the box vibrating.
And, it's just a simple matter of fact, some boxes just don't sound as good or loud as others. I have disassemled 2 of my builds and replaced boxes.

Matt

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Permalink Reply by Sam Williams on April 3, 2010 at 5:22pm

Yes, there is a gap between where the neck runs thru the box and the box. So the top of the box should be able to vibrate freely.

Matt Towe said:

A single one inch hole is probably ok ..... some may argue , but I have seen times when it didn't seem to make a difference if the box even had holes or not.
He means is there a gap between the top of the box and the top of the neck where it goes thru the box. This allows the top of the box to vibrate much more freely ( just like a regular guitar) and helps with volume.
Try playing without the box snuggled up against your body .. I play with just an edge against my body. Same thing as the gap, more if the box vibrating.
And, it's just a simple matter of fact, some boxes just don't sound as good or loud as others. I have disassemled 2 of my builds and replaced boxes.

Matt

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Permalink Reply by Sam Williams on April 3, 2010 at 5:23pm

Thanks for the advice!

Matt Towe said:

A single one inch hole is probably ok ..... some may argue , but I have seen times when it didn't seem to make a difference if the box even had holes or not.
He means is there a gap between the top of the box and the top of the neck where it goes thru the box. This allows the top of the box to vibrate much more freely ( just like a regular guitar) and helps with volume.
Try playing without the box snuggled up against your body .. I play with just an edge against my body. Same thing as the gap, more if the box vibrating.
And, it's just a simple matter of fact, some boxes just don't sound as good or loud as others. I have disassemled 2 of my builds and replaced boxes.

Matt

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Permalink Reply by Alan Roberts on April 4, 2010 at 2:27am

I've seen CBG where the top looked like a county road sign after a big sale on shotgun shells -- ie, shot full of holes. The physics is complicated, but a cliff notes version says that a soundboard can't vibrate if it looks like swiss cheese. Adding a second 1" hole couldn't hurt, but don't get carried away.

You might think about putting a second hole in the SIDE. That would direct the sound at the player, and not compromise the top. Just a stupid thought; I'm not sure if I'd try it on MINE, heh heh. But I've seen them on custom acoustic guitars.

I built a lyre once that had NO sound holes at all (see my photo section). A second lyre had a few small holes. both based on 1,000 year old examples. But Not much difference in volumn.

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Permalink Reply by Sam Williams on April 4, 2010 at 2:48pm

"I've seen CBG where the top looked like a county road sign after a big sale on shotgun shells -- ie, shot full of holes. The physics is complicated, but a cliff notes version says that a soundboard can't vibrate if it looks like swiss cheese. Adding a second 1" hole couldn't hurt, but don't get carried away."
HA! Mine's too pretty for the shotgun treatment!

Alan Roberts said:

I've seen CBG where the top looked like a county road sign after a big sale on shotgun shells -- ie, shot full of holes. The physics is complicated, but a cliff notes version says that a soundboard can't vibrate if it looks like swiss cheese. Adding a second 1" hole couldn't hurt, but don't get carried away.

You might think about putting a second hole in the SIDE. That would direct the sound at the player, and not compromise the top. Just a stupid thought; I'm not sure if I'd try it on MINE, heh heh. But I've seen them on custom acoustic guitars.

I built a lyre once that had NO sound holes at all (see my photo section). A second lyre had a few small holes. both based on 1,000 year old examples. But Not much difference in volumn.

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Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on April 5, 2010 at 1:19am

Back in the Yahoo group days, someone who had actual math and physics background referred to the work of Hermann von Helmholtz (same guy who came up with the music notation system of D d d', etc) and the consensus was that your average cigar box needs a sound hole the size of a quarter. Any more compromises what little bit of surface area you have to work with.

Here! Har! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance

But you have to do the math yourself.

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on April 5, 2010 at 1:41am

How did you construct your cbg? Is the sounding board (top of box) free to vibrate? Did you glue the top down to the neck running through the box? (Not a good idea when building acoustically) The sound hole is essential for developing the tone inside the box. Certainly holes effect the tone/sound. The size of the box and it's ability to vibrate and create soundwaves are key to volume. I hope this helps. Enjoy

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Permalink Reply by Wade on April 5, 2010 at 3:31am

I have only a small quarter size hole on the side of my indian box- points towards me and has good volume.

Alan Roberts said:

I've seen CBG where the top looked like a county road sign after a big sale on shotgun shells -- ie, shot full of holes. The physics is complicated, but a cliff notes version says that a soundboard can't vibrate if it looks like swiss cheese. Adding a second 1" hole couldn't hurt, but don't get carried away.

You might think about putting a second hole in the SIDE. That would direct the sound at the player, and not compromise the top. Just a stupid thought; I'm not sure if I'd try it on MINE, heh heh. But I've seen them on custom acoustic guitars.

I built a lyre once that had NO sound holes at all (see my photo section). A second lyre had a few small holes. both based on 1,000 year old examples. But Not much difference in volumn.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on April 5, 2010 at 2:03pm

I think I know the CBG you are talking about. That particular box has a lid that is somewhat thicker than the normal box, which is typically (roughly) 1/8 inch thick. Because the lid is a little thicker, it may not vibrate as easily, thus not create as much resonance as you might like.

You could possibly get more volume with more holes in the lid, but my understanding is that the more holes you drill, the more treble the sound is, and the less holes you drill, the more bassy the sound is.

You could also get one of those little battery powered amps and plug it in and crank the volume up!!! LOL

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Permalink Reply by Sam Williams on April 5, 2010 at 2:53pm

I like that idea Iggy!!!

Iggy said:

I think I know the CBG you are talking about. That particular box has a lid that is somewhat thicker than the normal box, which is typically (roughly) 1/8 inch thick. Because the lid is a little thicker, it may not vibrate as easily, thus not create as much resonance as you might like.

You could possibly get more volume with more holes in the lid, but my understanding is that the more holes you drill, the more treble the sound is, and the less holes you drill, the more bassy the sound is.

You could also get one of those little battery powered amps and plug it in and crank the volume up!!! LOL

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