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SOAPBOX - Rants & Raves

A sounding board for the CBG Revolutionary

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Cigar Box Fire & Brimstone.
A place to spout off with your tirades, your manifestos, your calls-to-arms. (all the stuff that made the "old forum" great).
What are you passionate about?
What makes your blood boil?
Don't pull any punches.
. . no touchy-feely support group bullshit here.


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Started by Susan Hunt. Last reply by Mama Mojo Dec 11, 2009. 8 Replies

I just have to say, this site is so damn much fun. There's always something interesting going on, in addition to the river of information inside. It's impossible to look at CBN for just a few…Continue

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Comment by Wichita Sam on June 1, 2011 at 6:39pm

Matt,

 

Thanks for a good try... "Blessed are the peace makers"...  There are three issues that I doubt that I will agree with Hal on... ever. 

 

Kicking someone's ass because you don't like the way they roll is just wrong. 

 

Generalizing about any ethnic group or using hate speech and justifying it with "patriotism" is just wrong.

 

Personal attacks just because someone has pushed back against your arguements/ideas/humor is wrong.

 

The funny thing about mean, cruel or bigoted humor is not that someone will take it out of context, but that someone will call you on it.  I once had a church member who thought that "Rastus and Liza" jokes were funny never could understand that they were mean, hateful and bigoted. 

 

You know I respect our military.  I wish the world was different and we didn't need to send our troops into harms way.  But I will not accept hate speech masquerading as patriotism.  That too is... just  wrong. 

 

We are decades past the time when anyone should expect to get a pass on that kind of rethoric.  If you try it, you will get called on it.  I never attacked Hal personally, only his assertions, arguements and generalizations that demeaned both groups, nationalities and races and individuals.

 

I would rather talk about CBGs.  I hope this ends this round of silliness.

 

thanks for mediating.... but some hings are... just wrong.

 

the best,

 

Wichita Sam

Comment by colin mcgrath on June 1, 2011 at 6:36pm

I personally know a person who uses his opinions to embarrass, degrade, put down and make fun of other people. Often paired with comments that can make one feel humiliated for the person they are and the financial situation they are in. However this person is not well off because of his own accord, he also makes many thoughtless mistakes. So basically he is kind off a embodiment of the ridicule he imposes on  others just without the extra things that his mind focuses on being the primary problem in his victims physical image. One could say that the reasons he finds to ridicule others is not the primary source of their situation in life. In some cases those reasons are just effects of their emotional or mental inequalities. Effects that he himself has the good fortune to ignore, but still he shares certain sociological down-falls with those he is making fun of.

 

  The thing is though we can use angry or negative words and say they are jokes, many times they can be. I think we as humans have that deep process to find the laughter in harshness. Some of us just have that humor more pronounced. The rant I am giving is that sometimes when one uses a negative or mean-spirited opinion, that can make others just as mean-spirited and just as willing to use their opinion as a weapon. And rather than a "getting to know one another" situation you can have hostility and frustration. And even though I, myself get very wrought up in my anger at an issue. That anger causes problems in the lives of those around me, ie my wife and children...basically any one around me. And then my anger makes me tired and drained, and just not feeling good about the things that are blessings in my life. It is hard to think about ALL the different people out there and whether or not I should curb my thoughts so no one gets offended. That is just as draining...and not possible. There are always going to be those who can take offense to even the sharing of ones opinion , especially in this online  world we live in. Basically it just irks me when someone I have known for years is constantly, constantly spouting off their opinions as though if do not listen and take them as your opinions you are just SHIT! And the opinion never changes and is always in your face. AGH!

 

  Any way, this rant was not intended as a direct response to the ones going on before it. Although while reading these past  discussions, which were rather entertaining from a lurker pov, it got me thinking on my subject and the person who I am alluding to. I guess my only response to the previous posts would be this: Not all people think your jokes are funny. That is "your" generic, not a personal attack on Hal. I for one think that Frank Zappa, George Carlin, Howard Stern, and Andrew Dice Clay (old school, not revived) are hilarious people, and poignant. Yet many people do not agree, Go figure!! 

 

Sleep well CBG peps.

Comment by Matthew Borczon on June 1, 2011 at 3:30pm
wow did this all go astray somewhere. I had been trying to stay out of this one. I think the initial post was meant to commemorate soldiers with some misguided humor added in. Now it has taken too many turns to be believed. Sam I do not think the attack was on the dutch, as much as it was on Allen. I served with the dutch in Afghanistan and they were brave soldiers and wonderful people. Anyway, I think the spirit of the original post was taken out of context and then people took what they needed to fuel their own anger out of the other posts. Sam I hope we get to meet one day and play some music and exchange some stories. You seem to have been through quite a lot in all areas of life. Probably why you preach, The lord puts it all in your road so you can help all who come behind you. Allen, I know nothing about you but I deeply respect your right to say to no to war and to hate in all forms. I left Afghanistan with no hate for anyone I hope. I do not think any soldier or sailor who has been there is in favor of war. I fight for the right of everyone to believe what they believe. My cousin and close friend was the head of Pax Cristy here in Erie Pa. Sister Mary Lou Kownacki has spent her life working for peace. We do not agree on all subjects, but love each other and try to understand each other as best as we can. I  hope the disparaging comments about Hispanics is a poor attempt at humor. My neighborhood is the hub of Latino religion in my home town and my friends in this community are very important to me. I wish I spoke as much Spanish as my wife does but I work on it. Anyway, All I am trying to say is that the computer leaves a lot of room to mis interpret an e mail. My wife and I found this out while I was overseas. We could not hear the humor in words and could not see the intention behind sentences. In a perfect world we might find that all 3 of you feel the same way about servicemen and have more in common than have things to argue about. Still this place is for social rants of all kinds, so rant on if you like. You just seem like nice intelligent and thoughtful guys who are fighting when there are better things to do. I mean no offense to anyone here and to  Sam I certainly mean no offense as I owe you much of my sanity in the last year, but I thought I should try to make a little peace if that is possible. That is my two cents, Pa wrestling rules will now be waived for this contest!! Lets get ready to rumble.
Comment by Wichita Sam on June 1, 2011 at 1:59pm

"The Lady doth protest too much, methinks"... is often misapplied today. 

 

 In Shakespear's day "protest" meant to pledge or to make a vow... not to object or deny.  So that line in Hamlet meant that "the Lady" was losing credibility by making strong affirmations, rather than today's implication that a person is losing credibility by objecting too much....

 

But of course you already knew this, but misapplied to quote anyway.....

Comment by Wichita Sam on June 1, 2011 at 1:36pm
"The Lady doth protest too much, methinks."   Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, line 230
Comment by Wichita Sam on June 1, 2011 at 1:32pm

Hal,

 

I'm sure you're right and I'm wrong....

 

But, I've seen so much bigotry in my life and especially in the lives of my wife and her family, that I know that an amazing amount of rhetoric about "English only" and immigration/border security is nothing but code language for the most vile race bigotry.  But, of course, you are 100% free of bigotry. 

 

So again, you and your rant is nothing but your affirmation about how it's your right to kick someone's ass if they offend you and how brown skinned people are wonderful and you are glad to be friends with so many....

 

So again, you're right and I'm wrong.... and, oh yea, according to you I'm the bigot and you're pure as new fallen snow. 

 

Puerto Ricans are immigrants?  More ignorance.  Why should my wife ever be asked to prove her citizenship when she is on American soil?  Could you?    

 

You just jump from demeaning one group to another.  Now you attack a citizen of the Netherlands.  So often I feel like I ought to apologize to the international community for the comments make by people who feel compelled and justified in making disparging comments about other countries and their citizens. BTW, the Netherlands (also known as Holland and her citizens know as Dutch) is a capitalistic democracy.  It has the oldest standing army in Europe.  It is a NATO allie of the US and while over run by Germany during WW2, the Dutch resistance was effective during the war effort. Today the Netherlands military participate in joint operations with the US in Afghanistan and in Africa. While Dutch is the official language, 70% the citizens of the Netherlands have an effective working knowledge of English.  A 2005 ranking of "level of Education" lists the Netherlands as 10th of 179 nations, while the US was ranked 20th.

(most of the info from Wikipedia)

My uncle would probably disagree with your low opinions of the Dutch.  Of course he was a great grandson of the Dutch immigrant that I mentioned in a earlier post.  He was also a tank driver for Patton in WW2, participated in the "breakout" of the battle of the bulge and saw the suffering and courage of the Dutch. 

 

All this doesn't sound like a people who are the dope smoking cowards that you protray.  And, with a world economic freedom ranking of 15 (the US ranks 9th), I would guess that most citizens of this educated, free, prosperous and democratic country are pretty satisfied with life. (a May 2011 study ranked the citizens of the Netherlands as "the happiest" in the world).

 

But, then you're right and I'm wrong.

 

Feel better?

 

the best,

 

Wichita (wondering why I even try to reason with the unreasonable) Sam 

Comment by Habanera Hal on June 1, 2011 at 12:02pm

Alan & Sam:

I am sorry that you read into things that aren't there and make assumptions based on knee-jerk reactions.  I never mentioned any specific ethnic group in my rant.  I believe it was Shakespeare who said, "The Lady doth protest too much".  Perhaps you are seeing too much of yourself in this.

I live and work in a South Florida casino.  Nearly all of my co-workers come from other lands - Puerto Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Russia, China, Ukraine, Lebanon, Syria, and more, even the Netherlands.  They are all good people.  The difference is they are here legally and have embraced not only English as a second language but also all of the tenets and responsibilities of living in the United States, i.e.: they pay their taxes and obey the laws.

My initial rant was aimed at those who disrespect and abuse the rights and liberties of those brave individuals that have served and fought to keep this great country free.  America opens her doors to all who wish to come and live here, to be productive, and to raise their families in a free and safe environment.  I am well aware of the conundrum that exists between having the freedom to speak one’s mind and the necessity of preserving one’s right to espouse an unpopular idea.  “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Sam, I don’t believe that you would disagree with that.  It is unfortunate that your wife, a U.S. citizen, has had difficulties with the way she looks(?) in airports.  As my wife was an Immigration Officer, I can tell you that while “profiling” any ethnic group is considered wrong, it is sometimes a necessary evil, especially today.  I also thank and honor your family members for their service to our country.

 

Alan, I neither need nor want your pity.  You do not live the United States, so you have no standing when it comes to criticizing what I or anyone legitimately living here has to say. You can only dream about a life here.  You were in the military?  The Netherlands even has a military?  What did you do, sit around smoking dope in your “coffeshops” all day?  Remember, since you have “the guts to say no to war and killing” (read cowardice), if it wasn’t for the strength and military power of the United States, you’d be living under a swastika now.

Comment by Allan on June 1, 2011 at 10:08am

I pity you Hal,,   Jesus said love one another as I have loved you,,  oops sorry that does not apply to people with sheepole mentality.

 

I am retired now,, and have had the people of your mentality. Have you ever considered seeking help. There are people who can help you ,, that is if you have health insurance to cover it.. 

 

 

Comment by Wichita Sam on June 1, 2011 at 10:07am

Hal,

 

You rant wasn't funny.  Caps accidental?  Hmmmm.

 

I am sorry for your loss.  Sometimes it is instructive to live in somebody else's shoes. 

 

 Maybe you can understand how I feel when my Puerto Rican wife is harressed in airports because of the way she looks. (Before you go on a rant about Puerto Ricans, they are all American Citizens, although they are the poorest, they have the high per capita military service, MP units from Puerto Rico were the first to do multiple deployments in Iraq.  And btw, my wife's uncle served in Korea and her brother was special forces/airborne in Vietnam who lives every day with the effects of Agent Orange poisoning serving with distinction with multiple Purple Hearts and a Congressional Medal nomination.)

 

There is no honor in kicking the ass of the ignorant and weak because you are strong and angry.  The fundmental of most ethical systems is that "might does not make right."  If you have the right to choose whose ass you kick, just because you are offended by their behavior and you are stronger than they, then the what was the point of all that sacrifice through all those generations???

 

Hate built around tribalism (they look different and have a different language that we do) is as old as time.  To break off anyone who does speak the language as less worthy than English speakers is... well, ignorant of the contributions of millions of immigrants (historically, large portions of 1st generation immigrants never master English.)  But be careful to not suggest that my Dutch great great grandmother who never learned English wasn't as good as some English speaking low lifes I deal with all too often.  According to your ethical system, my offendedness at your outrageous speech would justify me using all my 6'6" 220 pound body to shove my # 13's right up your ass.  Good idea?  No, and I wouldn't think of doing it.

 

You see, we all have "history" that informs our opinions.  But we ought to try to live on a higher moral/ethical plane and not use the tragedies of our lives to justify our bigotry.  The great moral debate remains through the ages... "Am I better than you, because you are different than me?"

 

The next time some police officer harrasses my Hispanic-American (all her lifetime American) wife because she looks different, what do you suggest I do?  Applaud his jingo-istic/patriotic fervor? Or, should I kick his ass?  Or should I just avoid Arizona, California and Texas all together?

 

Land of the Free?  As long as you look and speak like the dominant culture. (By the way, the Reverend Amy Jaime-Wood holds multiple college degrees, has also been a college professor and speaks better English that 90% of the "true red blooded Americans" I know.  And she also speaks and writes 4 other languages.  I guess that disqualifies her as being a good American.

 

Biogtry is what is it... and it isn't noble, no matter how you dress it up.

 

Wichita (gloves and sticks on the ice)  Sam

 

PS: I don't think is was the immigrant part of the person that killed your family member... it was the drunken, foolish, don't give a damn part of him that did the killing... Maybe you're right.  Let's deport everyone who doesn't look and sound like we do.  Then there will be no more drunk drivers killing innocent people.   Hmmm, I didn't know you needed to read English to understand what a red octagonal sign meant.  Yea, you're right, it was his lack of English language skills that killed your family member.  So, how soon after the tragedy did you open ESL (English as a Second Language) Classes in your community?  You didn't?  No, I suppose not.  It is easier to hate than to work to fix what's broken....

 

Now how's that for a rant?

Comment by Habanera Hal on June 1, 2011 at 8:47am

This is a rant forum. 

I was on a rant that was originally meant to be humorous.

However, I am sick of those that are disrespectful of the brave men and women who serve our country.  I'm sick of those that hide behind the freedoms granted by our Constitution to try to destroy this country.  I have lived long enough to see the steady decline in morality, justice, pride in oneself and sense of obligation to serve.  In 1972 when I came home from the service, I was cursed at and spit on, and YES I KICKED THAT GUY"S ASS and I would do it again today. 

 

Sam, I'm sorry for the caps,

 

Alan, I don't know what the F you're talking about.  How dare you make an assumption about who I admire?  You have no idea who I am.  From your answer, you're the one that should be standing in line.

I don't have a problem with those that choose not to serve, only with those that disrespect the heros who do.  Read #11 again.  And yes, I'm mono-lingual although I do find it interesting that should use the language of Islamic terrorists as your first choice in your response.  I speak English, the official language of this country.  I'm sick of people who come to this country, legally or illegally who don't (won't) make any effort to learn our language, but don't have any problem living off the government's teat.  My wife was a Federal Agent in immigration for almost 35 years, and the crap she had to put up with for the last 10 would astound you. 

And speaking of illegal immigration, let me see if I have this right:

If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor

If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.

If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed.

If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

 

BUT IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:

A JOB,  A DRIVERS LICENSE,  A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,  WELFARE,  FOOD STAMPS, CREDIT CARDS, SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,  FREE EDUCATION,  FREE HEALTH CARE, A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON,  BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE, THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT AND, IN MANY INSTANCES, YOU CAN VOTE. 

And before you come back with some inane comment about how these are the things that make America great, stand in the shoes of someone who has had a family member killed by an unlicensed, uninsured, illegal immigrant who runs a stop sign because they can't read English, and trys to run away because he knows he'll be deported.

 

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Started by Susan Hunt. Last reply by Mama Mojo Dec 11, 2009. 8 Replies

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