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Joinery suggestions for hand-made boxes

Hi all,

On my current build, I decided to construct my own box with some quality wood. But I was curious to know if anyone had suggestions on joinery for the best sound and strength. I went with dovetails just for the fun of it, although I know cigar boxes traditionally use box/finger joints. Any suggestions or ideas would be welcome.

Thanks!

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by T-Gripped on November 7, 2019 at 9:41am

When building LPG's I use a simple miter joint. Here's an image. After the corners dry I add bracing. These are paired typically with a single coil pup, so the acoustic sound quality is rather immaterial. Its easy. Its quick.

Permalink Reply by Reg Seward on November 7, 2019 at 10:58am

That is more or less how I do mine, much like making a drawer box. You use rubber, I use masking tape. The sides can be planed to unequal heights, the ends different as a result, and the final result is quite easy on the eye..... Braced in the corners by a bit of quadrant, plus these give the lid and base somewhere to be screwed, or glued to. I often use 5/6mm thick Sapele. I wish I had taken a few pictures of my earlier builds though...!!!

Permalink Reply by Rich Butters on November 7, 2019 at 5:08pm

Hi Chris, I am a real armature at building so no advice from me but question. I love the looks of dovetail & finger joints as I think this shows 'craftsmanship'

I live in Thailand so I can’t get cigar boxes and to import will be a 'nightmare' getting tobacco products through Thai customs. I know there empty boxes but the mention of cigars would raise a red flag. I will be building making my own boxes from Mahogany or Rubber Wood boxes and necks and fret boards

My understanding is the actual top (soundboard) of the guitar that generates the sound by vibrating like a drum skin. Usually, up to 80% of the sound is created from two vibration points to either side, and just below the bridge.

The question is 'do the dovetails hold this sound board too tightly and stop the vibration? and do the dovetails alter the sound characteristics of your guitar?’

Also ' what thickness is the wood top, sides and bottom?'

Cheers

Rich

Permalink Reply by Chris Wharton on November 8, 2019 at 12:38am

Hi Rich. Good questions. I think the consensus from this discussion is that the thickness of the pieces I have is a bit too much. As it stands, I believe the sides are about 3/8" (far thicker than needed) in canarywood. The top and back are padauk at about 1/4" thick, which is, I've learned, about double the thickness needed. After learning so much from the folks in this discussion, I'm trying to figure out how to thin those down some (the back is already glued on, but not the top).

To your questions, I would guess the tighter the joint the better actually, so that whatever vibration there is in the sides isn't disrupted with gaps, space to rattle, etc. The type of joint probably does alter the sound characteristics, but how is quite the mystery. :) Really, I'm guessing it's not only the joinery, but of course the wood type, the glue-up, and any supports you might add inside that'll make a big difference in sound together.

As others have mentioned in this discussion, that's the fun of it all...finding out what your guitar will sound like when it's all said and done. Kind of like finding out what your baby will look like when it's born (my wife would probably not appreciate that simile).

Permalink Reply by Rich Butters on November 8, 2019 at 1:26am

Hi Chris, thanks for the response. I will be building in Mahogany and have sourced the box wood

I will let you know how I get on

Cheers

Rich

Permalink Reply by BrianQ. on November 8, 2019 at 5:57am

Don’t worry about the sides being too thick, it’s the thickness of the top that makes all the difference? Just like the LPG pic above? 1/4” is fine, I have several vintage hollow body/arch tops built with 1/4” solid maple tops & the sound is phenomenal?

Permalink Reply by MadGomer on November 9, 2019 at 2:37pm

Chris - I agree with Brian Q - don't sweat the thickness of your sides or the type of joinery (as long as it's tight). I expect the overall stiffness of the top to have the biggest impact on your acoustic response (that stiffness is a result of thickness, wood species, and any bracing you might have, particularly around the bridge.) Stiffness of the back would be the second biggest contributor. Since your top is not attached yet, consider thinning that up but don't get too hung up if you can't get it down to 1/8". Since your back is attached, thinning it by sanding or planing is about your only option short of trying to remove it entirely, and that may not be worth the risk on guitar #1. Build on my friend, you'll continue to learn as you go. If you do remove material from the back, check the thickness before you start and monitor it as you go to avoid going too far.

Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on November 9, 2019 at 3:46pm

I agree. Build it, try it, and most important..... Play it.

When the time comes, (and it likely will) build another. Try something different, play that. A lot.

This can be a lot of fun if you dont get hopelessly hung up on the minutia.

Permalink Reply by MadGomer on November 10, 2019 at 1:30am

My first two had way too much flex in the neck and were basically not playable. They frustrated me immensely until I finally took the time to add some backing to them and take the time to get everything blended to a nice looking and feeling contour. Both are now great in their own right, but still have unique personalities and fun to play. You're off to a good start with that box, keep the pictures coming!

Permalink Reply by Chris Wharton on November 18, 2019 at 4:04am

Hi guys. Finally got ‘er done! I’ll have some better pics of the thing soon, but aside from a slightly misaligned pick-up and some funkiness on the headstock, it turned out nicely and the sound is beautiful. Aside from the fretboard from CB Gitty and some drill holes, everything is 100% hand-cut, including my first scarf joint for the neck/headstock junction, which was an adventure let me tell you. Thanks for the input on the body joints. I might pop some holes in it at a later date to see how it sounds as more of an acoustic, but for now I’m going to enjoy noodling on this thing.