Maduro all wood box, top(thick), or bottom (thin) for sound board? Effect of short vs long scale length on tone

next Project is a 4 string cbg with short,(23 inch,) scale.  Coudn't find a dove-tail sides box, so using a maduro.  I play and like small,3/4 guitars so I thought a 23 inch  scale made sense.  I read somewhere that shorter scale can have a bad effect  on tone. I thought someone might know what I can expect.  The Maduro box top is pretty thick, while the bottom is thin.  I thought it might due to try inverting the box to use the thinner bottom for the sound board, maybr adding a little inner bracing under the bridge.  mY THINKING IS TO TRY AND GET AS MUCH VIBRATION GOING AS i CAN  WITH SUCH A SMALL BOX.  i THOUGHT MAYBE SOUND HOLES AT THE SIDES INSTEAD OF  THE TOP, LIKE SOME EXOTIC GUITARS I;VE SEEN, MIGHT SERVE TO CREATE A BETTER MEDIUM FOR VIBRATIONS.  aNY THOUGHTS ANYBODY.  IF THIS IS THE WRONG WAY OR PLACE TO POSE SUCH QUESTIONS, SORRY.  JUST JOINED AND DON'T UNDERSTAND CORRECT PROCEDURE

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Hi Gordon,Bear in mind that if you move the bridge too close to the tail it will kill the sound,aim for a bridge located about 1/3 up the box for a better sound.

Thank you for that tip sir, It's just what I need to hear.  The thing that caught my eye about your sketch was the hollow carved from the neck on the bottom, and , what looked like an absence of glue where the neck made contact with toe box top. Were these features to produce better acoustic sound,(vibrations?)  I plan to use some kind of pick-up but primarilly, I'n interested in tone.  I'm using my box upside down.  The top is 5/16. and the bottom seems better thickness for sound board.  I'm going to try a floating, rosewood bridge and bone saddle, ( now I know where.)  The plan is to leave the top intact, and put sound holes in the sides. The box wood is very dense and 1/4 inch thick.  I've seen boutique guitars made like this.  The reason for all this, is to make a short scale tenor that I can plug in.  When I saw your sketch, I thought, ah, no glue at top of neck anchoring, he's looking for tone too.  Very grateful for your response sir.  Gordon

I left two unfinished with my luthier/guitar guy while I travelled for most of December. I've yet to see them since Nov. All are three-string. I've got a dog-bowl resonator, but I may save it for the future. One I built in a pre-amp. The other: I might put in a cheap single coil pick-up. I have divided feelings about what to do about frets. Maybe a diatonic scale? My first was a simple one, painted 21 inch scale, but no real frets, floating bridge, not naturally loud, but can be plugged in an amp. The piezo's pretty good! I'd like to make additional modifications, it's unstrung right now, but I should probably let it be, just play it. My slide playing needs work. 

Hi again, the radius referred to is the curve on top of the fingerboard. On a six string neck they are usually one of the following 7.25 " 9.5" 10" 12" 14" 16" and 20" and sometime a mix of two. The reason is to aid in easier ergonomic positioning of the fingers on the frets. However contrary to this rule is traditionally Classical, nylon and Spanish guitars have flat fingerboards. Some more modern nylon guitar now have a "radiused fingerboard.

As you say Gordon, is it a benefit on a narrow [non tapered] fingerboard? Possibly not, it's a matter of taste. I have radiused my mandolin fingerboards, and they are very narrow.

For slide playing I would prefer a flat board. Don't forget if you radius the board you should also radius the saddle and nut too. 

Taff

I'm sure you're right.  Before I took my 3 string apart to make a 4 string cbg, I worked to find chords.  I couldn't get used to the slide. The neck is so narrow, the flatness didn.t seem to bother me.  I guess I'm trying to find out everything that's out there.  I've got time to sniff posibilities out before I commit.  Moved into a house We bought and I'm stripping wallpaper, and painting and stuff.  Its ok, I really like the research, planning, drawing up plans.  I guess it's from years of model ship building.  It's the old, if it will work on paper, it will work in wood.  Right now, I'm wondering wheather to anchor the neck jus at the ends of the box, or to add shims to the underside of the neck and anchor it to the bottom.?????  Pleasure talking to you

Hi, If you are talking attaching the neck to the box, this is the way I do it, and why.

In an actual cigar box one is limited to what the box has to offer, as you found out with thick tops and limited air space in the box - the sound chamber -, that's why I normally build my own boxes.

In the photos you will see that I have put neck and tail block on the outside of the box, this gives more room inside. I try not to glue my necks in as I like to remove or adjust them, I use bolts or screws. The purpose of the cutout in the neck is so there is no contact with the top, I want that to vibrate freely when exited by the strings, so that it moves air in the box. Air carries soundwaves, soundwaves carry sound out of the soundholes. to the listener.

** Some say that gluing the neck to the box lid/top makes little difference, some say listeners hear no difference at all. My experience tells me that if I glue some wood mass to my tops {acoustic guitar] it will change the response when the top is set in motion. The more you add the more energy is needed to set the top into motion.

So, what is added to the top, as bracing, [acoustic guitar] is also carved away until and suitable ratio of response/tone and strength is achieved. I need all I can get from a small cigar box.

I feel that if gluing a large mass of timber to a box lid makes no difference, I'd asking why.

This is not the only way to attach a neck however.

Hope this helps. Taff

Looking at your pictures, it seems perfectly logical to anchor the neck on the outside.  You lose nothing only gain interior space. wonder why one doesn't see more  of that.  I think in most engineering, there's elegance in simple solutions.  Really nice of you to share this with me and go to the trouble of the pics.  I learn so much from you guys.  Your work is reflected by your shop area pic. It's sure a joy to talk to you guys.   Gordon,(swamp-gas Gil)

Hey, I see on your profile, or whatever they call it, you live in Australia.  My son lives in Manley.  If our idiot-in -chief, Trump looks like he's about to destroy the country, and I become a refugee at my son's door.  I'll look you up.     Gordon

Ha ha, I've made up the spare bed already, no nead to bring a guitar there's one in the room waiting.

Taff

only one Taff... you're slipping..lol

  • When I was still living in Massachsetts, a guy from Sydney, a computer system engineer and his family built a house across the street from me.  When he encountered his first winter in Mass. I think he saw the error .  He had a calender of arial views of greater Sydney on the wall.  All I could think of was, my God John, what are you doing Here.  I think he asked himself the same question;  he packed up and moved to San Diego that summer.   I never forgot that calender.  It was like, if you die and lead a good life, do you go to Sydney?

I've e got chuckle, Gordon it depends on your idea of heaven, not for me, I live in North Queensland. We get the same beautiful country and less people, except when the people from Sydney arrive in winter. Haha.

Oh, and I have more guitars than I can pack in my car, but I'm only allowed one to stay in the house.

Taff

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