Okay, so I started my first build a little over a year ago.  It was a solid wood Tabak cigar box.  I thought, "For my first one I will go all out so that subsequent builds will just be a sinch!".  I went for a fretted, 4-stringer. 

I used red oak for the neck, no finger board originally.  I used some old Gibson tuners I had lying around, and wired a Fender neck pickup in series with a piezo disk (placed under the bridge position). Things were going great.  I cut out star sound holes to match the stars in the logo on the box.  It looked sharp.  But once I strung her up I soon realized the frets were off and she wouldn't intonate for anything.  I learned I didn't measure correctly from the middle of the nut bolt.

Now, so you know, instead of giving up I built 2 fretless (which turned out great and sold quickly) and a dulcimer scale, fretted Cookie-tin-jo (which took some additional work but now intonates and plays great).  So, now to my question (and back to my first failed build)... 

I decided to fix this I would remove the frets (which by the way are pieces of coat hanger I slotted the neck for and glued into place). After filling in the slots and fret markers I added an 8th inch fingerboard on top of the existing neck.  I then cut slots and glued the old bits of wire back down, but this time I added a zero fret and marked off my 25" scale measuring from the zero fret.

My harmonics work fine (as they did previously), but the actual fret intonation is still off. Could this be because of the huge bolt I am using for a string guide?  Can the strings actually rest on the zero fret, and should they?  Should I slot the bolt (string guide)?  The action is set to about a 16th to three 32nds of an inch at the first fret, and about two to three 16ths of an inch at the 12th fret (will provide pics if need be when I can).  By the way, the zero fret is a slightly larger diameter (gauge) wire than the other frets (think of it as 12 gauge vs. 14).

I am more sad and disappointed than frustrated (although extremely frustrated).  Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Views: 1589

Attachments:

Replies to This Discussion

Yeah, I know the frets are all over the place closer to the twelfth fret, but I wasn't finished with the neck (or the frets), but thought to check my spacing (since this was the second time fretting this guitar).  I was super anxious to see how it turned out, regardless of some fret buzz.  

Looks like the clothes hanger idea was a disaster from the start.  My Cookie-Tin-Jo turned out fine using bobby pins ('course after a little help figuring out I needed to seat the nut further into the neck or use a smaller bolt)...  

Attachments:

I think the strings should contact the zero fret.  Then the "nut" (bolt) becomes simply a string guide.  

I am not an expert, because I don't use a zero fret.  And, as you found out, it is difficult to measure from a round nut for proper scale length.  So, I use a more or less standard plastic or bone nut.  It is easy to measure from.  If you are measuring from a bolt type nut or bridge, you want to measure from where the string leaves the bolt.  A little difficult to do precisely.

It is cheap to buy those plastic or bone nuts.  You will probably have to cut or grind them to fit a 4 stringer.  Not hard to do.  Also fretwire is cheap and much easier to deal with than wire, coathangers, windshield wiper blade inserts, etc.  Give it a try

My first two guitars had the frets right on the neck too.  I was terrified of making a mistake when fretting them and having to scrap the whole neck.  Or put a new fretboard on top of it like you did.  Now I make the fretboard separately and glue it to the neck.  Congratulations on your perseverance with that neck.

Gary

Brian:

On Measuring fret slots:

Measuring from an existing guitar is very difficult and not very accurate.  Decide on the scale length that you want and go to The Stewart Macdonald site and you can get a fret spacing guide for any scale length and any number of frets.  Make your measurments from the nut or zero fret.  I bought a good quality stainless steel 24" ruler at a stationery store for about $6.  It has inches and metric.  I actually filed little notches where every fret goes on the ruler, for future fretboards.

Measure VERY carefully and be sure your saw cuts are exactly perpendicular to the neck.  I spent 4 or 5 hours cutting slots on my first guitar.  Now I can easily do one in 15 minutes.

Another dumb question then... how do you measure decimals?  I have been measuring the best I can using the Stewart Mac calculator, but apparently that's getting me off by about an 8th of an inch by the 12th fret.  I am half tempted to buy one of their $40 fret scales...

With a caliper wouldn't I have to measure fret to fret through, and not from the nut?  

It is better to measure each fret from the nut. If there is any (even slight) error in measuring a fret, it continues on down the neck if you are measuring fret to fret. Measuring from the nut, will "wash out" any error on the next fret.....

Brian,

Convert your scale length in inches to metric.  Use the Stew-Mac calculator in millimeters.  Much easier.  Use a metric ruler.

Gary

get a simple metric/sae yard stick with inches on one side and centimeters (divided in 1/10s) on the other. Harbor freight $ 4, Lowes $ 6...

buying a $ 40 fret scale locks you into that particular scale length. You don't learn much by following someone else's pattern (not against patterns, but need to make them yourself), and your stuck if you want to try a different scale length or even a different instrument all together.

I may actually have such a ruler already.  I will need to double check.  How accurate does the measurement need to be (as far as the first fret for a 25" scale is 35.640mm or 1.403"), can I round the decimals?  35.6mm would be 35mm and 6 lines past it, or if measuring using centimeters would 3.6 work, or will that throw me off rounding like that?

I am sorry to sound like an idiot here over some extremely small measurements, but they appear to add up (and not in a good way for me).  I am just trying to wrap my brain around this before screwing up my next fretting job when I try to refret this guitar and the very next build I have put on hold because of these issues.

By the way, thanks for everyone's support.  I appreciate the words of wisdom as well as the pats on the back and reassurance.

round to nearest mm, or if you are real finicky and have good eyes, you can try 1/2 mm....

35.6 mm would be 3 cm's plus 5.6 marks past (if you're really obsessive) or about half way between the 5th and 6th mark past the 3 cm.... (yes, you can round everything, so that would be 3 cm plus the 6th mark past.

I'm found the a 24" scale works for me and is comfortable for many players, so I have the near equivalent of 610mm permanently marked on my ruler (24in = 609.60mm). If I'm doing a custom build for someone wanting something different, or I'm building something like a bass or a uke, I go to the Stew-Mac fret calculator http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator/ and measure of the distances to the nearest mm.

Your question has been answered already but for fret spacing I use this:

http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/

Then just print it out and tape it to the fretboard. Check that your printer is printing to scale.

RSS

The Essential Pages

New to Cigar Box Nation? How to Play Cigar Box GuitarsFree Plans & How to Build Cigar Box GuitarsCigar Box Guitar Building Basics

Site Sponsor

Recommended Links & Resources


Discussion Forum

Cutting deep boxes in half

Started by Justin Stanchfield. Last reply by Taffy Evans Mar 20. 9 Replies

Attention 1st time builders!

Started by BrianQ.. Last reply by MadGomer Feb 27. 2 Replies

Brickhouse CBG Wiring

Started by Ian Boyd. Last reply by Ian Boyd Dec 11, 2023. 1 Reply

Fretless fret markers

Started by Michael Myers. Last reply by Michael Myers Apr 20, 2023. 8 Replies

canjo building and tuning

Started by Brenda. Last reply by MadGomer Dec 3, 2022. 5 Replies

Minimum tools needed

Started by Wichita Sam. Last reply by Taffy Evans Nov 14, 2022. 21 Replies

High G problem

Started by Michael Myers. Last reply by Taffy Evans Nov 3, 2022. 4 Replies

Doubling the high string

Started by Robert Killen. Last reply by Paul Craig Oct 14, 2022. 23 Replies

Aluminum License Plate

Started by Larry Sobol. Last reply by Larry Sobol Oct 1, 2022. 6 Replies

C. B. Gifty three string fretless kits.

Started by jon neet. Last reply by Taffy Evans Aug 16, 2022. 6 Replies

Frettin' and stainin'

Started by Doug Laffin. Last reply by Order99 Aug 11, 2022. 4 Replies

Bolt on neck to a set neck body?

Started by Paul Craig. Last reply by Paul Craig Jul 17, 2022. 14 Replies

Locations

Started by Roy Smith. Last reply by the anonymous pick May 15, 2022. 2 Replies

Help please re Bento Box Uke "nut"

Started by Al Lobe. Last reply by BrianQ. May 10, 2022. 18 Replies

Clarification on pick ups

Started by Michael Myers. Last reply by Taffy Evans May 6, 2022. 5 Replies

Licence plate cbg

Started by Michael Myers. Last reply by Michael Myers May 2, 2022. 5 Replies

Builder's Tips

Started by Wichita Sam. Last reply by MadGomer Feb 23, 2022. 2 Replies

Getting there but needing advice/help please.

Started by Lionhound. Last reply by MadGomer Feb 18, 2022. 8 Replies

Tres Cubano Build

Started by Paul Craig. Last reply by Paul Craig Dec 9, 2021. 18 Replies

CB Gitty Country Roads Banjo kit

Started by Ken Hope. Last reply by Christopher G Daniels Nov 29, 2021. 4 Replies

Latest Activity

A.D.EKER commented on Dar Stellabotta's video
Thumbnail

A Cigar Box Guitar Six Stringer Built by Louie Lamanna

"i See Your ready to Blow away the GRAND STADIUM ! tree strings more of DAR DELIGHT !! Shine Girl !…"
4 hours ago
A.D.EKER commented on A.D.EKER's video
Thumbnail

Im Troubled (Tribute) Mc K Morganfield by BCB - A.D .Eker 2024.

"Thank you for the kind comments Doug! Glad you liked the Picture !"
4 hours ago
BrianQ. commented on Dar Stellabotta's video
8 hours ago
BrianQ. liked Dar Stellabotta's video
8 hours ago
Southern Ray commented on Southern Ray's photo
Thumbnail

Project Punch!

" Thank ya again Keith!"
11 hours ago
Southern Ray commented on Southern Ray's photo
Thumbnail

Punch Project!

" Thank Ya Keith!"
11 hours ago
Doug Thorsvik commented on AGP #'s photo
Thumbnail

AGP #527 - ''Led-Zep 2''

"This build really strung you along Alan! Reminded me of all my fishing line experiments; a lot of…"
12 hours ago
Doug Thorsvik commented on A.D.EKER's video
Thumbnail

Im Troubled (Tribute) Mc K Morganfield by BCB - A.D .Eker 2024.

"Diggin’ the slow blues. I like that last pic Andries! Look at all those cool guitars. Yeah!!!"
12 hours ago
Dar Stellabotta posted a video

A Cigar Box Guitar Six Stringer Built by Louie Lamanna

This video is the unboxing and the demonstration of a beautiful, six stringer built by Louie Lamanna. Join Louie and I June 15 at the second annual Pittsburg...
14 hours ago
Doug Thorsvik commented on Doug Thorsvik's video
Thumbnail

Hail the Resurrection Day: 2-String Violin Chugger Cigar Box Guitar

"Happy Easter to you too Andries! The passion is definitely in full swing. Turns out I’m…"
14 hours ago
A.D.EKER commented on Doug Thorsvik's video
Thumbnail

Hail the Resurrection Day: 2-String Violin Chugger Cigar Box Guitar

"Happy Easter Doug ! the Passion is in full swing !"
15 hours ago
A.D.EKER commented on Ricky D's photo
15 hours ago

Events

Music

© 2024   Created by Ben "C. B. Gitty" Baker.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service

\uastyle>\ud/** Scrollup **/\ud.scrollup {\ud background: url("https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/963882636?profile=original") no-repeat scroll 0 0 transparent;\ud bottom: 25px;\ud display: inline !important;\ud height: 40px;\ud opacity: 0.3 !important;\ud position: fixed;\ud right: 30px;\ud text-indent: -9999px;\ud width: 40px;\ud z-index: 999;\ud}\ud.scrollup:hover {\ud opacity:0.99!important;\ud}\ud \uascript type="text/javascript">\ud x$(document).ready(function(){\ud x$(window).scroll(function(){\ud if (x$(this).scrollTop() > 100) {\ud x$('.scrollup').fadeIn();\ud } else {\ud x$('.scrollup').fadeOut();\ud }\ud });\ud x$('.scrollup').click(function(){\ud x$("html, body").animate({ scrollTop: 0 }, 600);\ud return false;\ud });\ud });\ud \ua!-- End Scroll Up -->