Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom T on January 15, 2015 at 2:35pm

Thanks for a complete answer. It makes sense that a magnetic pickup would gather the majority of its sound directly from the strings just above it. Picking up the box resonance would seem close to impossible considering how the mag works.

The piezo, on the other hand, seems to be almost 100 percent sound hitting it inside the box.

I've tried mounting piezos in a thick layer of silicon inside a disc of pvc. I've also wrapped it in multiple layers of leather. Then, I've just attached it to the box top beneath the bridge with double sided tape. I'm guessing that there are likely a dozen more unique ways to mount a piezo that would affect its sound. Too many options, too few guitars.

A single bar mag pickup seems to have some merit since available individual coils then to be for 4 or 6 string guitars and don't really line up on a 3 stringer.

I also guess that where the mag is mounted makes an impact on the type of sound you get. I wonder if mounting the mag on the diagonal (so the strings lined up) would work well or produce some kind of odd sound.

A lot to try. A lot to learn. Just need more time to build.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on January 15, 2015 at 3:00pm

Unless you know someone like me who makes 3, 4, 5, and 6 string pickups. Then you don't have to worry about whether the poles line up or not, because they will.

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Permalink Reply by Scott aka Farmer Ted on January 15, 2015 at 2:59pm

An excellent answer.

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Permalink Reply by RTZGUITARS on January 15, 2015 at 2:07pm

Piezo to be oldschool mag to sound good. that's it. If you don't want a hole in the top use a disk or undersaddle pickup

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Permalink Reply by Tom T on January 15, 2015 at 2:36pm

Thanks for the direct, easy to understand answer. By "sound good" I assume you mean a clean pick up of the string's vibration without other sounds being added?

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Permalink Reply by Scott aka Farmer Ted on January 15, 2015 at 2:29pm

The first difference from piezo to magnetic is cost. A piezo disk costs pennies (a rod piezo a bit more), a magnetic pickup, from $10 to over $200.

Sonically, piezos will respond to every vibration, touch, tap, sneeze, cough, or buck snort we put upon the guitar. There are many tricks of the trade to reduce this fact. Some are better than others.

Now, you can physically "tap" on the top of a magnetic pickup, and it will create a microphonic reaction and sound thru an amp, especially if the mag pup is not wax/epoxy/lacquer potted very well to reduce this phenomenon.

Many builders suggest lathering on a generous amount of hot glue over the piezo after its mounted in some magical place inside the box, or on the side of the neck, or sandwiched between neck and underside of box lid.

My preference, when I was using piezos, was install one or two on the underside of the actual bridge. A 1/4" thick scrap of left over fingerboard works well. Shallow holes a little wider than the piezo on the bottom of that, with the wiring running down into the box thru a small hole & over to the jack (or volume pot if desired). Use a file to make a shallow groove on top of the bridge to set in a length of brass rod or whatever to make the saddle.

Best advice I can give is try what you haven't done already. Discovering new things in our shared journeys as hobby builders and players is what it is all about after all. For me, I have at least 25 or more piezo disks in my parts drawer, and will likely never use them again. I prefer to use either my own hand wound mag pups, or use some from another CBN member (like Dan Sleep or Elmar, since I like the flat top mounted pickups for their versatility).

Cheers

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Permalink Reply by Tom T on January 15, 2015 at 2:40pm

Thanks Ted.

I agree that much of the fun is trying things that you haven't done previously.

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Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on January 15, 2015 at 6:06pm

Yeah man I've not used em in quite a few years but I used to like em mounted in a block of wood too. Soft wood, cedar, pine etc.. Take a scrap, saw in two, chisel out a little hole, only barely deep enough (channel for wires to escape) stuff it in and glue the bugger closed again..

If you really want to learn to get the best out of piezoelectrics I strongly recommend cornering Ted Crocker in the chat box, here or over at his clubhouse. Ted is king of piezos, he's tried just about everything....

You can bury redundant pole pieces on a strat pup etc by mounting the whole thing inside the box and making a 'dummy coil' - basically a fake pickup top with 3 or 4 or whatever pole pieces (nails, screws etc) which extend the magnetic field of the hidden real pup inside ;)

The other big difference between coil pups and piezos is that guitar amps, fx etc are made to work with coils right out of the box. If you've got a strat and an amp already and you play with other guys etc then a cbg you made with a coil pup will plug right up to that same rig without headaches, where a pizza will require a seperate amplifier ideally, but failing that, a bunch of knob tweaking etc before you're happy...

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Permalink Reply by David L. on January 15, 2015 at 2:45pm

This is an old video I did to try and demonstrate the difference between piezo/magnetic/both together when somebody else asked a similar question. Recorded on my old camera so sound is quiet. Turn the volume up to full on the video window.

http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/comparing-cbg-pickups

Personally I like to add both so you get the different sounds from one guitar.

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Permalink Reply by Tom T on January 15, 2015 at 2:58pm

I'll check out the vid in the morning when I'm awake. The idea of installing both make great sense. Then you could pick and choose based on what you wanted.

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Permalink Reply by Tom T on January 16, 2015 at 2:27am

Great video. It explained a lot about what to expect with a magnetic pickup vs a piezo or the two together.

Thanks for posting it

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Permalink Reply by Cause the Blue rat on January 15, 2015 at 7:54pm

Piezo for a woody, raw, twangy sound. They have the added benefit of allowing you to use the body of your CBG as an instrument. Tapping, slapping and knocking will be picked up and heard threw your amp. What the guitar is made of and the type of strings is really important. Everything effects the tone

Piezo disadvantages. Best at low to moderate volumes. Prone to feedback. The weaker signal doesn't work well with most guitar pedals

(quality) Magnetic pickups can be put on a toilet paper roll and still sound like an electric guitar. Any volume level can be achieved. The tone can be easily changed electronically. They work well with every amp and effects pedal on the market.

(cheap) Magnetic pickups have a tendency to be microphonic. They will pickup some of the sounds created by the body of the instrument. Best at low to moderate volumes. Tend to feedback.

I'm a mag junky. Admit I love the raw sound of piezos. But not the hassles. Both work equally well in a cigar box. Just depends on the sound your after.

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