My congregation is trying to engage the 20 and 30-somethings in conversation about God. This group is mostly absent from Church. I would like to hear from you if you have insight about why you're not interested in "Church". If you under 40, I especially want to hear from you....

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Eric,

thank you for your words and wisdom... I am not a "numbers" minister. Get me budget and I can appeal to consumer Christians... I am much more concerned with what looks like a generation that is dismissing Christianity because of the Church's self-serving attitude.

My struggle is (and will continue to be) how to reach across the divide and just have meaningful conversation. Not much hope of offering Christ until you can engage both the heart and mind...

I receive your prayers gladly,

blessings,

Sam


Joker said:
Hi my name is Eric (aka Joker) and I am a 30 something christian. Ok Sam- The search for the 30 to 40 something lost congregation members seemes to be across the board for most churches. There are so few in ours that we could form our own small group. I do know from checking out the local mega- contemporary churches that they are comprised mostly of this demographic. So is it that this age group are not church goers or not attenders of denominated christian congregations- I personally don't know- just a theory. I do know as a 30 something christian that has checked out these churches that even though the gospel rock bands sound cool, and the high tech A/V equipment blows you away, it seemed hollow. It all seemed like- how can I make myself feel better through God, rather than what does God need me to do to futher the Kingdom.

I do know here in southwest Ohio region of the United Methodist Church is on a mission of "Love First". If we follow the Great Commandment- the Great Commission will follow. Our Bishop has even proclaimed that the focus does not need to be on how many butts we can fit in the pews, but what are we doing for our local communities to fullfill the Great Commandment.

In other words, should energy be spent trying to "recruit" 30 and 40 year olds- an approach that sometimes tends to repell most people- or should we let them know we are christians "by our love" as the old hymn puts it. It should look and feel so inviting that folks want to be apart of it.

I have always said that the biggest enemy to the church is the church itself. Not always through bad intentions. Sometimes well meaning christians drive folks away.

So i don't really have an answer for you Sam. Except that I believe in the power of prayer. I will continue to do that, and share love with the people I come across.
-God Bless, Eric
Well as I can see a lot of it is the churches fault, They aren't out witnessing to the people trying to show them why they need God in thier lives. And if they do witness to them there is never a follow up with the person witnessed to, so the person is like a fish caught and thrown on the bank wondering whats next. People see no need for God because most have no idea who he is, even though most people have a built in desire for something spiritual. Most are looking for something to fill that spiritual hole in thier lives but don't know how or what to do. I am 63 years old live in a town full of churches but in all the time I have live here had had only one christian come to my door. Now I have had other churches that have come knocking on my door those are the ones I don't believe in how they understand the bible, but at least they were out witnessing because thats what they are suppose to do. Churches get into a comfort zone and think that people will just come rolling up to join their church. Now if you know nothing of God why would you want to go to church. As I see it the church isn't doing it's job, it's more than preaching a great sermon, Jesus taught the people about the Kingdom of God and the need to have God in their lives. Today you can go to some churches and hear a sermon preached, BUT hear very little to do with God. Why because most ministers don't want to hurt anyones feelings. Churches nee to get back to preaching the Word of God and forget all the entertainment we see in churches today. Yes some singing in church is great but it doesn't need to go on for two hours an hour longer than the sermon.
If people going to church have a hunger for the word they don't need to have what I call fluff and stuff. I believe in the worship part of church but don't over do it. I believe in praying for those that need it. And I believe in preaching a great sermon on God's Word. And if it offends anyone then good it should because it is God speaking to their hearts letting them know that their lives aren't right with God.
Just my two cents
God Bless
Roger
Me and Jesus got our own thing going, Me and Jesus got it all worked out ,
Me and Jesus got our own thing going, I don’t need anybody to tell me what
Its all about. Im 27 and I have no use for a building or a man to tell me what
Spirit is. Look around you, the sky the mountains, the trees, the love
In your life, that is spirit. NOT an old building where we sit kneel and
Stand. So wile the rest of the people go to church I will be playing in
Gods playground that he has so nicely given to me. You don’t need a
building to be close to God I see Him in everything I look at and I thank
him by using what he has given me.
You'll probably get a few people trying to tell you the virtues of church, but let me first chime in and say...COOL. I love to hear passion like that.

Ishmaelprophet said:
Me and Jesus got our own thing going, Me and Jesus got it all worked out ,
Me and Jesus got our own thing going, I don’t need anybody to tell me what
Its all about. Im 27 and I have no use for a building or a man to tell me what
Spirit is. Look around you, the sky the mountains, the trees, the love
In your life, that is spirit. NOT an old building where we sit kneel and
Stand. So wile the rest of the people go to church I will be playing in
Gods playground that he has so nicely given to me. You don’t need a
building to be close to God I see Him in everything I look at and I thank
him by using what he has given me.
Hi Wichita Sam,
This is a far out one for me as not only am I Australian (and therefore non-religious) but I fall into the age catagory you are interested in, and it is for this reason I thought I would share some of my observations which may or may not be of any relevance. This is not a rant because spirituality is a journey and not a demarcation.

1. Religion was originally a form of mythology/spirituality formalized through the passage of time and by the various peoples of the Earth taking their own spin on things (All monkeys want answers). There is nothing wrong with this except that over time it became more of an excuse to alienate those who thought or acted differently (as we just don't like change). However because no judgement day has occurred - the very belief in a paternal figure measuring your soul for good or evil is just becoming outdated and out moded. As we discover more about ourselves and our universe the ideas of old just don't seem to mount up, lo and behold scientology. Put simply we don't buy it anymore no matter how it is packaged. To date religion has caused and will continue to cause more problems than perhaps it has solved...might be time to call it a day.

2. Alternatives - such as freemasonry which began as a reaction to catholocism is also noticing a drop in younger attendees. The organisation is being forced to move away from tradition (which defines it)and embrace newer ideas and concepts in an attempt to draw back the young (who naturally embrace new things and eschew the old) I don't know if it will work to save the freemasons from obscurity but it may be worth a try. Can any church try this, or is it a case of take it as it is? "So let it be written so let it be done " after all went out with the Egyptians

3. Ideas are easier to change than beliefs. As someone once said "The enemy of Faith is knowledge" As we now know everything is there room for anything else? If Jesus was alive today he would have to go on Jay Leno, what would happen if he said the Jews or the Muslims were right all along.....

Hope this helps, please don't be offended by what could be considered to be atheism/altruism.

Kindest Regards,


Will
Will,

No offense taken... I function as a "chaplain" much more than as "pastor/priest", so I "think and let think".

Your observations (and historical commentary) are pretty much in line with what I'm hearing from the majority of "post modern" persons that I have conversation with. It's pretty hard to describe you (or your generation) as "athesist" (being against God) because in the main, while you may have a spiritual streak, you don't accept historic/traditional understandings and therefore have nothing against God should He/She exist.

I do wonder about a blanket rejection of the existance of "God" as a catagory of possibility with so much unknown (mystery?) still a part of everyday life. I would think that your reaction is much more a reaction against the dominating/controlling institutions that hijacked "religion" to serve masters other than God. "When government and religion ride in the same ox cart".... etc. etc. etc.

Anyway thanks for you honest and open response. If you ever want to hang with people of faith that aren't too hung up on "forms" and will be with you in thought (and prayer) in times of need, this would be a good place to be.

You are always welcome....

the best,

Wichita Sam
Chaplain.


Will Carter said:
Hi Wichita Sam,
This is a far out one for me as not only am I Australian (and therefore non-religious) but I fall into the age catagory you are interested in, and it is for this reason I thought I would share some of my observations which may or may not be of any relevance. This is not a rant because spirituality is a journey and not a demarcation.

1. Religion was originally a form of mythology/spirituality formalized through the passage of time and by the various peoples of the Earth taking their own spin on things (All monkeys want answers). There is nothing wrong with this except that over time it became more of an excuse to alienate those who thought or acted differently (as we just don't like change). However because no judgement day has occurred - the very belief in a paternal figure measuring your soul for good or evil is just becoming outdated and out moded. As we discover more about ourselves and our universe the ideas of old just don't seem to mount up, lo and behold scientology. Put simply we don't buy it anymore no matter how it is packaged. To date religion has caused and will continue to cause more problems than perhaps it has solved...might be time to call it a day.

2. Alternatives - such as freemasonry which began as a reaction to catholocism is also noticing a drop in younger attendees. The organisation is being forced to move away from tradition (which defines it)and embrace newer ideas and concepts in an attempt to draw back the young (who naturally embrace new things and eschew the old) I don't know if it will work to save the freemasons from obscurity but it may be worth a try. Can any church try this, or is it a case of take it as it is? "So let it be written so let it be done " after all went out with the Egyptians

3. Ideas are easier to change than beliefs. As someone once said "The enemy of Faith is knowledge" As we now know everything is there room for anything else? If Jesus was alive today he would have to go on Jay Leno, what would happen if he said the Jews or the Muslims were right all along.....

Hope this helps, please don't be offended by what could be considered to be atheism/altruism.

Kindest Regards,


Will
Now this just what I think personally, when young people go to church and have no idea what the gosple is about and they see a minister get and preach a fire and brimstone sermon, they are completely lost. They haved no idea what the gospel is about just that there's a minister condeming the things that they like to do and not knowing why it's wrong in God's sight. Jesus didn't walk back and forth preaching things that the people didn't understand. He stood or sat talking to them in a why that they understood what he was saying. I personally think if we are to reach the younger generations we have forget those powerful sermons that get some people all worked up and follow Jesus example and preach streight to them in a way all will understand. Just used the comman man to carry on his work here untill he returns. Don't you think we should be doing the same. You have to learn to crawl before you can walk, so it is with the gospel you have to feed it to them a bit at a time so they can digest it. You can't feed a baby a steak dinner, it has to be soft so it will be able to digest it. Same with young people today.
Sorry I get long winded sometimes
Roger
One of the best blogs I've read about this subject:
http://www.mondaymorningmemo.com/?ShowMe=ThisMemo&MemoID=1413

check it out.
shane
Shane,

Thanks for the link..... I like the last line "in fact, I'm betting everything on it"... (meaning that Jesus is everything the Bible says he is). I am too. I guess it's somewhat a matter of style, but the problem that I originally posed still remains, "How to be bridge the generation gap so that the Gospel is intelligible to post modern persons?"

blessings,

Sam



Shane Speal said:
One of the best blogs I've read about this subject:
http://www.mondaymorningmemo.com/?ShowMe=ThisMemo&MemoID=1413

check it out.
shane
Sam,
What if you didn't try to bridge the generational gap? What if you instead taught the young generation how to start their own church? (Thus raising up leaders to take the mission after even you are gone.)

Just thinking aloud on this one. Lemme vamp here...

What if you hung out with a couple younger members who have a heart for their own generation. And what if you took them under your wing and taught them about the great leaders who inspired you... What if your goal was to have them deal with the "generational bridge" problem instead of you?

still vamping here...

Don't teach a class on "how to bring more to Christ." That's kinda heartless and wishy washy. Instead, teach a class on "Here's some really cool crap that has inspired me and made me who I am." Tell stories in this class, not sermons. If something really REALLY inspired you, it's gonna cross that generational gap because revolutionary ideas are timeless.

Did you watch those "How to Play CBG" vids I just did? If so, you saw that I didn't give any technical crap for people to memorize or get lock-step into. Instead, I showed "some really cool crap that allowed me to get more life out of my cigar box guitar." Even though many others have made free CBG lessons online, people are going ga-ga over my vids. Why? Because they focus on inspiration only. People want to be inspired. They want to read books and see websites that inspire. They want to listen to others who will light a fire under their ass.

And they want it with candor. They don't want a holier-than-thou speech...because we live in a "keepin' it real" society right now. Tell your stories that include your screw-ups and how God still used you.

"If I can do it, so can you" is the final message.

And if they're inspired to start their own church, you can provide a current church building and staff to help them take the mission further...and a lot faster than you did when you were starting out.

...and your prayers for them can be the same types of prayers David said for Solomon (I can't remember verses). David prayed that Solomon would do even greater things than he ever did.

One more note:
Joel 2:28 b - "... Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions."

Dreams say "I long for this to happen."
Visions say "Hot damn, this is how we can make it happen!"

The elders have dreams. They inspire the younger crowd with their dreams...which makes the up-and-coming generation plot even greater revolutions."

Well, that's my vamp.
shane



Wichita Sam said:
Shane,

Thanks for the link..... I like the last line "in fact, I'm betting everything on it"... (meaning that Jesus is everything the Bible says he is). I am too. I guess it's somewhat a matter of style, but the problem that I originally posed still remains, "How to be bridge the generation gap so that the Gospel is intelligible to post modern persons?"

blessings,

Sam


Shane,

Wanna move to Kansas and be my "associate" in charge of church revitalizaton? Thanks for the insight... worth every keystroke.... You've given me enough to chew on for a couple weeks...

blessings,

Sam


Shane Speal said:
Sam,
What if you didn't try to bridge the generational gap? What if you instead taught the young generation how to start their own church? (Thus raising up leaders to take the mission after even you are gone.)

Just thinking aloud on this one. Lemme vamp here...

What if you hung out with a couple younger members who have a heart for their own generation. And what if you took them under your wing and taught them about the great leaders who inspired you... What if your goal was to have them deal with the "generational bridge" problem instead of you?

still vamping here...

Don't teach a class on "how to bring more to Christ." That's kinda heartless and wishy washy. Instead, teach a class on "Here's some really cool crap that has inspired me and made me who I am." Tell stories in this class, not sermons. If something really REALLY inspired you, it's gonna cross that generational gap because revolutionary ideas are timeless.

Did you watch those "How to Play CBG" vids I just did? If so, you saw that I didn't give any technical crap for people to memorize or get lock-step into. Instead, I showed "some really cool crap that allowed me to get more life out of my cigar box guitar." Even though many others have made free CBG lessons online, people are going ga-ga over my vids. Why? Because they focus on inspiration only. People want to be inspired. They want to read books and see websites that inspire. They want to listen to others who will light a fire under their ass.

And they want it with candor. They don't want a holier-than-thou speech...because we live in a "keepin' it real" society right now. Tell your stories that include your screw-ups and how God still used you.

"If I can do it, so can you" is the final message.

And if they're inspired to start their own church, you can provide a current church building and staff to help them take the mission further...and a lot faster than you did when you were starting out.

...and your prayers for them can be the same types of prayers David said for Solomon (I can't remember verses). David prayed that Solomon would do even greater things than he ever did.

One more note:
Joel 2:28 b - "... Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions."

Dreams say "I long for this to happen."
Visions say "Hot damn, this is how we can make it happen!"

The elders have dreams. They inspire the younger crowd with their dreams...which makes the up-and-coming generation plot even greater revolutions."

Well, that's my vamp.
shane



Wichita Sam said:
Shane,

Thanks for the link..... I like the last line "in fact, I'm betting everything on it"... (meaning that Jesus is everything the Bible says he is). I am too. I guess it's somewhat a matter of style, but the problem that I originally posed still remains, "How to be bridge the generation gap so that the Gospel is intelligible to post modern persons?"

blessings,

Sam


I can't move to Kansas...and I have a call of my own to work on. However, if you'd like to spend a little time together in chat every morning as a bible study/devotional, I could really use that right now.

shane

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