Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by surffrogg on February 13, 2010 at 7:23am

tight bond

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on February 13, 2010 at 7:31am

You will get a TON of responses for this one. Surf has a good suggestion. Its what most use here.

I prefer hide or gelatine glue. Not the easiest to work with but is VERY strong and won't allow for 'creep'. Plus the joint shrinks when drying and thus makes the joint tighter. Sets up in less than a minute and can be but does not need to be clamped. I do headstocks, fretboards, and lids to necks (when I don't screw them on). I have needed to remove a fretboard and a neck from a lid and it made that a LOT easier. Only needs heat and water. Its a traditional luthier glue.

In addition, you can remove the joint/glue easier if you need to (change or repair the fretboard).

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on February 13, 2010 at 11:34am

Damn good videos that talk about glues:

OBrien Guitars - Luthier Tips du Jour - Glues Part I
OBrien Guitars - Luthier Tips du Jour - Glues Part II

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on February 13, 2010 at 5:21pm

who's a creep? Usually use titebond original (yellow wood glue).... have used titebond 2, stronger bond, but not needed.... I have only had two fretboards get misaligned (out of about 120 CBGs with fretboards.) and that was just carelessness in glue up.....

hide/gelatine glues seem like a hassle...

Wes Yates said:

You will get a TON of responses for this one. Surf has a good suggestion. Its what most use here.

I prefer hide or gelatine glue. Not the easiest to work with but is VERY strong and won't allow for 'creep'. Plus the joint shrinks when drying and thus makes the joint tighter. Sets up in less than a minute and can be but does not need to be clamped. I do headstocks, fretboards, and lids to necks (when I don't screw them on). I have needed to remove a fretboard and a neck from a lid and it made that a LOT easier. Only needs heat and water. Its a traditional luthier glue.

In addition, you can remove the joint/glue easier if you need to (change or repair the fretboard).

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Skeesix on February 13, 2010 at 6:56pm

Whatever carpenter's wood glue I have at the moment. Either Elmer's or Titebond. I can't tell any difference between them. I would try hide glue too for fun, except for I don't feel like springing for an expensive glue pot.

If anybody has a cheap alternative for the glue pot, let's hear it.

ps. I hear cold hide glue is just awful, unless it's improved a lot over the years.

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Permalink Reply by ChickenboneJohn on February 13, 2010 at 9:11pm

I'm going to start using hide glue, as I have a 19C guitar to restore..but buy a glue pot?! If you can make a guitar out of cigar box, youe should sure as hell be able to make a glue pot out of whatever is to hand. The principle is just one container inside another holding some water and a source of heat, just like a bain marie. I'll let you know how I get on! I've not heard a good word said about liquid hide glue..Titebond works fine for me.

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on February 14, 2010 at 3:22am

I use a double boiler pot and a thermometer. DO NOT go above 140-150F! I bring the glue up to temp and remove the pot from the stove. Holds temp for about 15 mins which is long enough for what I need to do.

I have heard some using a small crock pot -- one that's for dips and stuff. You can even make double boilers. Search google. Also using a waxing pot as in hair removal I think has been suggested.

Hey all, if you want to learn more about hide/gelatine glue, hit frets.com and look for his articles on hide glues. if you're really experimental you can add 5%-10% urea and it brings down the gel temp making the mixture a liquid at room temp == longer open time. Hide glue and gelatine glue gel at ~100F.

Keep in mind, tho I'm the hide/gelatine glue champion here, I do use Titebond.

-WY
ChickenboneJohn said:

I'm going to start using hide glue, as I have a 19C guitar to restore..but buy a glue pot?! If you can make a guitar out of cigar box, youe should sure as hell be able to make a glue pot out of whatever is to hand. The principle is just one container inside another holding some water and a source of heat, just like a bain marie. I'll let you know how I get on! I've not heard a good word said about liquid hide glue..Titebond works fine for me.

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on February 14, 2010 at 3:28am

One of the biggest issues I have with hide/gelatine glue is that there is VERY little open time -- time when the two parts are not joined and are being glued. To get around this, especially on fretboards and to make the glue flow easier, I heat the fretboard with steam a little, apply the glue thinly as possible but still have a good amount, then run the piece back into steam to reheat the glue.

Two bad things might happen here -- the steam might cause warping but since I will use clamps, that should not be an issue and the steam adds water and heat to the glue which might cause strength reduction. though on a fretboard there is less tension like on a headstock. Mainly the glue is holding the fretboard down to the neck.

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on February 14, 2010 at 3:35am

Skeezix,

Try it on small applications first to see how you like it. Mix 3:1 cold water:knox unflavored gelatine, leave sit for about 30 mins, heat to 150F. Leave sit and skim off the 'scum'. It should be deep straw colored and clear. Reheat to 150F and apply. I use a thin palette knife or you can use a glue brush. Work q-u-i-c-k-l-y! Glue will start to set and the parts need to be put together quickly. You can 'rub' the joint to allow the glue to seep out (this is ok as opposed to PVA or wood glues). You can clamp or not. Hide-type glues shrink when they dry. Set time is about 30 seconds to 1 min. Kinda like CA glue.

I have heard opposing thoughts on this but I stand by this opinion. Hide-type glue can be used as a filler and is easily sanded and mixed with wood dust to form a great filler. Its also easily stained and varnished leaving little trace. Bad part is it shrinks, so you will have to over fill or apply more than one 'coat'.

-WY

Skeesix said:

Whatever carpenter's wood glue I have at the moment. Either Elmer's or Titebond. I can't tell any difference between them. I would try hide glue too for fun, except for I don't feel like springing for an expensive glue pot.
If anybody has a cheap alternative for the glue pot, let's hear it.
ps. I hear cold hide glue is just awful, unless it's improved a lot over the years.

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Permalink Reply by Skeesix on February 14, 2010 at 8:08am

That reminds me - I have one of those wax warmers which I use for wax potting pickups. That sounds like it would make a good glue pot too.

I do remember reading the frets.com thing about using Knox gelatin for hide glue.

I'll give it a shot on my next project - thanks!!

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Permalink Reply by Richard D. DeRoin on February 14, 2010 at 10:00am

Thank you all for your advice I really appreciate it. Thanks !

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Permalink Reply by jeremy james a scriver on February 14, 2010 at 1:42pm

I use a powder marine glue you just add water so you can make it thick or thin as you like it works great as a repair glue in a seringe in a thin solution

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