Hi there,
I've made a few CBGs but just got my hands on an excellent, large, rectangular tin that is begging to become a guitar. I was just wondering what, if anything people did as structural support in these things. Its as solid as your average tin but I'm afraid that once I string it up it'll go wonky. Does anyone brace the top or corners or anything?
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i've had problems with building cookie tin instruments. mainly, as soon as one begins to cut any part of the lip where the lid and body meet, the lid becomes comprimised. this usually results in poorer tone, because the lid does not meet the body properly all the way around, so it does not resonate properly, and may even produce buzzing when certain notes are played.
i learned to avoid this issue altogether by building the instrument as a self-contained stick, and bolt this down to the rear of the cookie tin. the bottom of the tin is stronger and will resonate better, and the lid will stay on better since it has not been messed with at all. the same goes for the need for bracing - since the tin hasn't been cut, and bears no tension at all, it works just fine with no bracing or adaption at all.
but that's just how i do it. it saves a lot of work, and produces the same results every time. plus, the neck can be removed and switched to another can within moments. here's one of my canjos:
I built a candy tin and worried about it warping also. If you check my pics its called a canjo.(1st Canjo) But i have since learned its a tinjo. anyways I braced with wings on the inside with as little touching the can as I could. But I think it hurt the volume. I dont know because I didnt try without first. But I felt it being a lil quieter than expected. I will try a different way next time
Thanks, Roosterman (used to be Randyrooster? Or are there multiple Roosters out there?)
I'm planning a 4-stringer, probably tuned like a banjo. I figure if I string it up and it starts to deconstruct...I'll support it somehow. This is a link to it (imagine it without the packaging). It measures about 10"H by 11"W by 4" D. http://www.vitasprings.com/kirkland-european-cookies-belgian-chocol...
Roosterman said:
Im guessing with the thru neck design you are going the 3 or 4 string route?
If so, no bracing is required. Iv built them out of oil cans, biscuit tins etc.... just stick your neck thru and away you go. The top may flex a little, but so does plywood!
Even a 6 string will be ok, but its easier to put a block in for these anyway so you have something to mount the bridge / pup / neck to.
Im guessing with the thru neck design you are going the 3 or 4 string route?
If so, no bracing is required. Iv built them out of oil cans, biscuit tins etc.... just stick your neck thru and away you go. The top may flex a little, but so does plywood!
Even a 6 string will be ok, but its easier to put a block in for these anyway so you have something to mount the bridge / pup / neck to.
Hey PRH,
Thanks for the thoughts. Here's what I was thinking so far...I am planning to do a through-neck (with a recess under most of the top though). Then I'm thinking I'll do two braces (similar to the bass bar in a violin since we're bringing those into it), one on each side in kind of an "A" pattern with the narrow part meeting the neck. Since its a big tin, I'm hoping that will keep some resonator-like integrity without the whole top caving in. Then finally, I've got some spare dowels that I think I'll stick in the corners and screw the lid and back to. Thanks for your ideas, I'm just throwing stuff out there so that maybe someone will let me know if I'm heading down the wrong road. I'm sure there will be potholes, I'm just trying to avoid the one with the "Road Closed" sign.
I'm looking at the same issues and I've seen builders use the bottom of the tin which is often stronger and saves the picture on the lid if that's desirable. Violin and dulcimer makers use a sound post to transmit bridge vibes and it looks like this would also stiffen the tin top.
I think most of the question revolves around whether you intend the build to be a resonator (banjo/dobro etc.) or not. Internal bracing and resonators aren't too friendly, "regular" guitars can hide bracing w/o affecting the tone as much.
This may be a question for the banjo builders who may have the most experience with tins.
Looking forward to other ideas, I know I've got a lot to learn.
Hope this helps.
PRH
Replies
i learned to avoid this issue altogether by building the instrument as a self-contained stick, and bolt this down to the rear of the cookie tin. the bottom of the tin is stronger and will resonate better, and the lid will stay on better since it has not been messed with at all. the same goes for the need for bracing - since the tin hasn't been cut, and bears no tension at all, it works just fine with no bracing or adaption at all.
but that's just how i do it. it saves a lot of work, and produces the same results every time. plus, the neck can be removed and switched to another can within moments. here's one of my canjos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEGM8HZ_xow
hope this helps!!!
The tin should be fine bro... and loud!!
On another note, are you putting sound holes in it? I put some in my Guiness guitar and I swear it was louder without them....
I'm planning a 4-stringer, probably tuned like a banjo. I figure if I string it up and it starts to deconstruct...I'll support it somehow. This is a link to it (imagine it without the packaging). It measures about 10"H by 11"W by 4" D.
http://www.vitasprings.com/kirkland-european-cookies-belgian-chocol...
Roosterman said:
If so, no bracing is required. Iv built them out of oil cans, biscuit tins etc.... just stick your neck thru and away you go. The top may flex a little, but so does plywood!
Even a 6 string will be ok, but its easier to put a block in for these anyway so you have something to mount the bridge / pup / neck to.
Thanks for the thoughts. Here's what I was thinking so far...I am planning to do a through-neck (with a recess under most of the top though). Then I'm thinking I'll do two braces (similar to the bass bar in a violin since we're bringing those into it), one on each side in kind of an "A" pattern with the narrow part meeting the neck. Since its a big tin, I'm hoping that will keep some resonator-like integrity without the whole top caving in. Then finally, I've got some spare dowels that I think I'll stick in the corners and screw the lid and back to. Thanks for your ideas, I'm just throwing stuff out there so that maybe someone will let me know if I'm heading down the wrong road. I'm sure there will be potholes, I'm just trying to avoid the one with the "Road Closed" sign.
I think most of the question revolves around whether you intend the build to be a resonator (banjo/dobro etc.) or not. Internal bracing and resonators aren't too friendly, "regular" guitars can hide bracing w/o affecting the tone as much.
This may be a question for the banjo builders who may have the most experience with tins.
Looking forward to other ideas, I know I've got a lot to learn.
Hope this helps.
PRH