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Permalink Reply by BUGGY (C) on December 2, 2012 at 1:12pm

Metal nibblers? http://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/draper-tinmans-shears-cutters/drape...

 

Tin snips

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&sugexp=les%3Bern...

Anyone tried these aviation ones?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+Tools/Cutters+Snips/Aviation+T...

 

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Permalink Reply by BUGGY (C) on December 2, 2012 at 1:24pm

This suggests it might do the job without bending it...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAPER-EXPERT-HAND-NIBBLER-SHEET-SHEET-ME...

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Permalink Reply by Jon Leslie/Runaway Veal Music on December 2, 2012 at 4:22pm

These are all great replies... I have some straight aviator cutters but they are only good after most of the square is out and punctured...good for trimming. The nail, hammer,box cutter, knife good with gloves. A very small tool would be good but confined to a small area almost impossible to just scissor cut. Thanks for all the tips. Maybe a specific chisel would be good

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Permalink Reply by Thomas "Duck" Petry on December 2, 2012 at 7:48pm

As an old friend in the military vehicle restoration hobby used to say, "you can make it as complicated as you want". A god sharp utility knife will do the job quite well, just wear some heavy work gloves and count your fingers when you get through. A nice thin bladed chisel and a wood block to back up the cut will do the job too. If you are into power tools a Dremel with a cut off wheel works great, but can be hard to control unless you have steady hands, (OK, I'm old and can be shaky sometimes). All I'm trying to say is sometimes the easiest way is old style manual hand tools. If you are trying for mass production, get a punch and die set made up and have the local machine shop do them 1,000 at a time.

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Permalink Reply by jabes on December 3, 2012 at 9:22am

i use a 'dremel' to cut through seams, but you could use a wee hacksaw. use a hammer and wood chisel to cut clean lines without distorting . sorry if you think this hard on the chisel ,but it isn't.;)

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Permalink Reply by BUGGY (C) on December 3, 2012 at 12:14pm

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Permalink Reply by Jon Leslie/Runaway Veal Music on January 2, 2013 at 7:26pm

Rand,

I'd like to try the neck almost through as pictured in your first diagram here. I have a few questions regarding the diagram.

1. On the piece of wood on top of the other piece of wood. What kind of saw did you use to cut the chunk of wood out?

2. The diagram shows lid or bottom of tin as top of guitar ? Just wanna be sure.

3. Are your main two largest pieces of wood glued-and screwed together? I know the extra piece on the neck must be glued..

4. My goal is a finger playing non slide 3 string tin guitar. Since I don't think I can cut the groove with a hacksaw...I'll probably make the guitar with the lid on bottom. A variation of your diagram. Do you have a variation of your diagram that might be made with a hacksaw? Thank you for all your time and help. Hope my questions make sense.

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on January 2, 2013 at 10:19pm

Hi Jon,

Let me answer your questions one by one...

    1. On the piece of wood on top of the other piece of wood. What kind of saw did you use to cut the chunk of wood out?  

I usually use a mini hack saw or a fine toothed "razor saw" to cut my wood. I use a technique where I cut across the wood a series of cuts maybe 1/4" deep and 1/8 to 1/4" apart and then I use a appropriately size chisel and pry out the little blocks of wood between the two adjacent cuts. I repeat this until I have removed most the wood I want to remove and then I take a wood rasp to it, then a wood file and then sandpaper until it is even and smooth as I think it needs to be. Here is a photos that illustrate my method (in the photo I'm building a slotted headstock and want to recess the front face of the headstock by 1/4" or so). A hack saw (or mini hack saw) can do the job. You'll also need a 1" wide chisel, a flat wood rasp, a flat wood file and sand paper. Make sure your work piece is securely clamped down to your work table.

    2. The diagram shows lid or bottom of tin as top of guitar ? Just wanna be sure.

The lid could be in either at the top or at the bottom. However, it probably is easiest to do with the lid on the bottom as the lid usually introduce a couple more "bends" or "jogs" that will complicate the cut (or require extra filing, etc.). I'd start building cookie/cake tins with the lid on the bottom, and then experiment with one with the lid on the top. You should see the extra "bends" or "jogs" caused by the lid when you get around to doing it lid side up.

    3. Are your main two largest pieces of wood glued-and screwed together? I know the extra piece on the neck must be glued..

The two largest pieces of wood are the neck and the piece of reinforcement wood. These two pieces are glued together for the entire length beginning maybe 1.5" to 2" before the tin and running all the way to the tail end of the tin. Use Tightbond or some white carpenter's glue. Some glues like Gorrilla glue are not suitable for this job (because it expands as it drys, making the joint more visible -- as I understand it). There is no need for wooden dowels, screws or bolts to hold the wood together. White carpenter's glue or Tightbond is strong enough.

The only other blocks of wood shown are the fretboard, the tail piece and the piece of wood under the "bolt & nut" bridge. The fretboard is glued onto the top of the neck for its entire length starting where you plan to place the nut and running down till you get to the tin. You could extend the fretboard over the tin, but I usually don't bother. As long as you have 11 or 12 diatonic frets, you have long enough fretboard. For the tail piece, I use a block of wood, drill 3 holes for the strings and 3 or 4 larger holes for the mounting screws. You need to run the wood screws so they are secured into the tail end of the neck. You'll need to pre-drill these mounting holes. The piece of wood under the bridge is there just to spread the weight of the string tension over a larger are so you don't dent the lid (or bottom) of the tin. It's held in by string pressure.

    4. My goal is a finger playing non slide 3 string tin guitar. Since I don't think I can cut the groove with a hacksaw...I'll probably make the guitar with the lid on bottom. A variation of your diagram. Do you have a variation of your diagram that might be made with a hacksaw? Thank you for all your time and help. Hope my questions make sense.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "cut the groove", but you should be able to build a pretty good tin guitar or dulcimer using a relatively simple set of hand tools. The electric drill is the only power tool I use (not counting my computer to access CBN).

If you have further questions, let me know...

-Rand.

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Permalink Reply by Jon Leslie/Runaway Veal Music on August 11, 2013 at 12:54pm

Rand,

is the heel piece of wood on the bottom (well the entire neck) screwed into the bottom of the can? I do see your image shows screws into tailpiece/can. Thank you

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Permalink Reply by Jon Leslie/Runaway Veal Music on January 31, 2014 at 8:42pm

Rand,
Is there any particular angle used in the headstock in your picture here where your chipping the wood away? and how do you draw the curve in the headstock? Thank you

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Permalink Reply by Jon Leslie/Runaway Veal Music on January 3, 2013 at 9:29am

Rand,
this pic and explanation of your technique and tools are extremely helpful!
Sorry, if this sounds stupid..at what point do you measure the hole to be cut in the tin? After you've cut and glued both pieces that will be inside the tin? Looks like the wood inside the tin is same size thickness (after cutting and glueing) roughly as neck size (outside the tin). Do the sum of the interior wood pieces match the size of neck? Also is there a specific size of wood you use frequently for the tin guitars as opposed to the cigar box type? The photo makes the piece of wood look large..but that's just me. Rand super inventive and creative. Thank you!

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on January 3, 2013 at 2:04pm

Hi Jon,

The sum of the 2 interior wood pieces don't necessarily add up to the original size of the neck -- it depends on the size of the cut-out you make for the neck for the tin plus the thickness of the board that you glue in that reinforces this lower part of the neck (the neck-thru area). I generally use whatever wood I have that seems will fit with the least amount of additional work, and usually the same kind of wood as the neck itself. The minimum amount of wood to add for reinforcement is the same depth as the amount you cut away. But if you have a somewhat thicker piece, it is okay to use that, and your resulting neck should be just that much stronger. When you are done with both the cut-out and have glued on the reinforcement board, let it dry, and have shaped it to your liking, measure the resulting work piece, and then measure your hole of the cake/cookie tin and then make your cuts. I definitely build the neck before measuring and cutting the hole.

With regard to the photo I sent yesterday where the wood looks large, it could be an illusion. The photo is a close up of the headstock, not the cut out for a tin; but the method of cutting is the same. The neck in the photo was built up by laminating together 5 lengths of 3cm by 0.5cm trim wood which is readily available from wood suppliers here in China. Since this photo was of one of my earlier laminated necks, be aware that I now usually use 6 or 7 such lengths of wood so that the resulting neck will be 3 to 3.5cm wide to accept another length of 3cm x 0.5 cm trim wood as the fretboard. You do not need to laminate together your wood to form the neck of your tin guitar. I do because I can't get oak, birch or poplar in long 1.5" x 0.75" dimensions as people can in the States. Any similar dimensioned hardwood should be suitable for a 3-stringer neck. My neck design for tin guitars (dulcimers) is pretty much the same as for my cigar box guitars and my home-made box guitars.

I hope I have answered your questions adequately. Good luck with your project. Let me know if you have further questions.

-Rand.

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