i really dont know how much to charge for the cbg's that people want to purchase.does anyone have a system or anything on a charge rate? some take days to build ,some fall together,some i love too much to sale,and some are so bad i just want to be rid of them. i have been just guessing and by the looks of what some sale for,i may be cutting myself way short.
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Hi i always sell mine thinking of doing a site but it guts when i sell them cos you put your soul in to it but cash is cash nowadays i tend to get £60 for a diddley £100 for a three string and £120 for a four thats alll with hand wound pickups
Sam is right on again.
If I'm not there actually PLAYING the instruments so they can hear the gritty growls as I play , my CBG's just hang on the wall.
But I can draw a crowd by playing all those sounds they like but didnt KNOW they liked until they heard them.
Thats how I sell, by attempting to get them to fall in love with the sound they hear before they even see the instrument, THEN I do my thing and throw the picth out to the whole crowd hoping 1 or 2 will buy.
It IS hard work sometimes, but if your wanting to sell they gotta hear it.
Building the instrument and hanging it on a wall somewhere dont usually do it.They simply dont know what the instrument is and tend to think its a toy. So you have to change their mind.
Anyone who wants "to make money" at building CBGs will have a tough go. You can either setup for mass production (like Roger) where you have an acceptable margin at $80 per, or you go for the high end limited custom builds where you can truly justify $ 300+ per. Other that this, I think most of us are hobby/crafters.
Craft building is almost always a "give the labor away" proposition. If you have better options, or if you don't love what you're doing so much so that all you want back is cost and "a new tool now and then", you won't be building long.
But, there is a way to beat the Ebay prices (remember Ebay ought to be considered wholesale or at most Dollar General pricing). The way to make each CBG price higher is to learn to play as good as you possibly can. What you have over Ebay is you can demo the CBG you're showing and the customer can have it in their hands before the sale. When I buy anything from Ebay, I have to get it at least % 20 under what I can get it in person (shipping included) or I won't touch it...I factor in an "Oh, heck, this isn't as good as I thought" factor.
If you hang in long enough, and you love building and you get good at your craft and you learn to play good and you are a smart marketer, you can make money at building CBGs.... How much depends on you...
the best,
Wichita Sam
L.J. said:
I find it hard to make any money at this. Im happy if im buying a tool every now and then. But when it comes to time spent.I dont think any of us are making fair money. I go on ebay and see fretted 3 and 4 strings going for 60 and 75 bucks. That was a real eye opener back when I thought I might be able to make money at this. People that I sell too hear this every time. "You can go on Ebay and beat my price,But Ill sell you this one If you like"I have probably sold 50 now. I mainly do it because I love it. And it brings people Joy. As long as the hobby/addiction is paying for itself Im ok. I ask 100.00 for a fretless 3 string acoustic. It takes me about 12 hours to build one.So I figure I aint makin much , esspecially after expenses.And people pay it. I can hardly keep any inventory.I am building 3 or 4 at a time now to try and speed production a bit. Thats helping me alot on my time spent. And the addition of a tool here and there is a nice way to trim the hours and improve the builds.Just ask what you feel is fair. whats going to keep you happy after the point of sale. Ask whats going to keep you building more. If you feel like your spinning your wheels you might view them differently. When I came up with the 100 dollar price. I sat down with a piece of paper in my shop. I wrote down a mark for every tool setup, and a mark for every point of labor on a standard build(3string fretless)not counting the oops factor. counting coats of poly,sanding,holes drilled, everything involved from start to finish. I came up with over 30 tool setups and over 100 points of labor.(youre builds may be more or less) then I thought about my costs at home depot and lowes for Glue,blades,tools,etc and my money for wood at the lumber yard,boxes,strings and tuners. My prices seemed more than fair after doing that. Probably not fair to me. Haaaa!
I find it hard to make any money at this. Im happy if im buying a tool every now and then. But when it comes to time spent.I dont think any of us are making fair money. I go on ebay and see fretted 3 and 4 strings going for 60 and 75 bucks. That was a real eye opener back when I thought I might be able to make money at this. People that I sell too hear this every time. "You can go on Ebay and beat my price,But Ill sell you this one If you like"I have probably sold 50 now. I mainly do it because I love it. And it brings people Joy. As long as the hobby/addiction is paying for itself Im ok. I ask 100.00 for a fretless 3 string acoustic. It takes me about 12 hours to build one.So I figure I aint makin much , esspecially after expenses.And people pay it. I can hardly keep any inventory.I am building 3 or 4 at a time now to try and speed production a bit. Thats helping me alot on my time spent. And the addition of a tool here and there is a nice way to trim the hours and improve the builds.Just ask what you feel is fair. whats going to keep you happy after the point of sale. Ask whats going to keep you building more. If you feel like your spinning your wheels you might view them differently.
When I came up with the 100 dollar price. I sat down with a piece of paper in my shop. I wrote down a mark for every tool setup, and a mark for every point of labor on a standard build(3string fretless)not counting the oops factor. counting coats of poly,sanding,holes drilled, everything involved from start to finish. I came up with over 30 tool setups and over 100 points of labor.(youre builds may be more or less) then I thought about my costs at home depot and lowes for Glue,blades,tools,etc and my money for wood at the lumber yard,boxes,strings and tuners. My prices seemed more than fair after doing that. Probably not fair to me. Haaaa!
where in tennessee are you,i am also from tennessee,most of the ones that i have sold were for 75 and i have sold a few for over a hundred,but they were ones i really put my heart and soul into.thanks for the feed back
Roger Martin said:
Like Sam said earlier,the market itself decides what your product is worth.Our market here ( and its even more important now with the economy imploded) is very tough to gauge.So I base it here on keeping IMPULSE buy to under $100.At that price here in TENN, say $77.95 with tax it goes to about $85.55 before they get their purchase out the door.(Remember I'm trying to stay under that magic $100 number) To do that I build sort of factory style. In that on a session I just build a slew of necks.While the necks are drying I get the boxes ready,( all my boxes are beefed up slightly .I'm aware that beefing up can kill some sound, but I strongly feel that its worth losing a bit in order to make the instrument tougher.Most of my sales are to people that never heard of a CBG or a DB.Their Simply walking into a tourist MAll and hearing an instrument for the 1st time and decide they want one, ( with a little help from me) Because its an item they never heard of you'd be amazed at the questions I get concerning a box thats not perfect.They want a perfect box that appears like its never been used for cigars and looks perfect. The numbers that I build to keep enough stock means that there's no way I can always have perfect boxes on hand.SO I have to do a song and dance to explain the history aspect of the instrument to counter their idea that its a professional made instrument that looks perfect.((((A lot of times they ask about the guarantee.)))) I really dont know how much time I spend on each one because I've never built just 1 instrument.If I had to guess how it breaks down I'd say,not counting drying time ,maybe an hour per piece, maybe,,,,, With that build time in mind my prices AVERAGE about $77.95 for a simple 3 string CBG, depending on the price I PAID for the box itself and its desirability on its own etc.No frets, just drawn on.Its the reason I ONLY build sliders. There is NO market here for fretted ( cost based on time ) unless your willing to give your time away,, and I'm not. I try not to build CBG's that just look good hanging on the wall of the shop. In retail you have to pay rent on that section the CBG is hanging on, you cant afford to waste too much space on instruments that look good but dont sell.Its just the way retail is. If you want a quick lesson on retail, say, you know how much that square yard of space costs you each month to rent,now multiply that by 12 months and you know how much you wasted on that space that didnt make you a dime. Retail can be fun sometimes but it has some rules that you have to go by , if you want to make money. I do love building these things, but not enough to lose money in the process.
that is about the range that i have been selling for,60-75 for moderate builds and 125-150 for ones that i put alot more into,i feel satisfied with that-i have given alot away to family and friends and they have brought back paying customers ,so i guess you could call that advertising-thanks for the feed back
Wes Yates said:
Don't expect a lot. I would say a good [read: good] build will go for about $60 - $150 depending on the market, and where/how you sell. John McNair [RedDog Guitars], and I mean absolutely no offense here, makes boxes that are really expensive to me, but he does make great boxes and he sells them which is all good. He also has a great reputation and can market the crap out of them. I can even tell when I hear one of his being played, so he has a sound quality that adds.
I dunno what John Lowe sell his for but he has a great reputation, following, and quite a unique instrument so his would also be higher priced.
Like Sam said earlier,the market itself decides what your product is worth.Our market here ( and its even more important now with the economy imploded) is very tough to gauge.So I base it here on keeping IMPULSE buy to under $100.At that price here in TENN, say $77.95 with tax it goes to about $85.55 before they get their purchase out the door.(Remember I'm trying to stay under that magic $100 number)
To do that I build sort of factory style. In that on a session I just build a slew of necks.While the necks are drying I get the boxes ready,( all my boxes are beefed up slightly .I'm aware that beefing up can kill some sound, but I strongly feel that its worth losing a bit in order to make the instrument tougher.Most of my sales are to people that never heard of a CBG or a DB.Their Simply walking into a tourist MAll and hearing an instrument for the 1st time and decide they want one, ( with a little help from me)
Because its an item they never heard of you'd be amazed at the questions I get concerning a box thats not perfect.They want a perfect box that appears like its never been used for cigars and looks perfect.
The numbers that I build to keep enough stock means that there's no way I can always have perfect boxes on hand.SO I have to do a song and dance to explain the history aspect of the instrument to counter their idea that its a professional made instrument that looks perfect.((((A lot of times they ask about the guarantee.))))
I really dont know how much time I spend on each one because I've never built just 1 instrument.If I had to guess how it breaks down I'd say,not counting drying time ,maybe an hour per piece, maybe,,,,,
With that build time in mind my prices AVERAGE about $77.95 for a simple 3 string CBG, depending on the price I PAID for the box itself and its desirability on its own etc.No frets, just drawn on.Its the reason I ONLY build sliders.
There is NO market here for fretted ( cost based on time ) unless your willing to give your time away,, and I'm not.
I try not to build CBG's that just look good hanging on the wall of the shop. In retail you have to pay rent on that section the CBG is hanging on, you cant afford to waste too much space on instruments that look good but dont sell.Its just the way retail is.
If you want a quick lesson on retail, say, you know how much that square yard of space costs you each month to rent,now multiply that by 12 months and you know how much you wasted on that space that didnt make you a dime.
Retail can be fun sometimes but it has some rules that you have to go by , if you want to make money.
I do love building these things, but not enough to lose money in the process.
Charge what the instrument is worth. If you can build a studio quality instrument, the prices should reflect that. If your niche is the more traditional rickety crate guitar (not being disparaging - it's a legitimate sub group of the artform) then the prices should reflect that as well. But don't build a fretless three string with a Radio Shack piezo and try to charge $300 for an "Electric Dobro Tone Monster". You may be able to hook one or two people with that but that's only because you got lucky. In most cases, you'll blow your credibility. Most musicians research the hell out of these before they buy them just because they're trying to determine if they are actually playable instruments and not some ridiculous gimmick, so they're going to know what goes into the construction. You can't slap a huge price tag on something and invoke the magic phrase (Mojo) and expect the masses to come running.
When I started selling my guitars, I did so at a loss. A large part of that was because I was totally unknown and people didn't know if they wanted to gamble on the new guy. Also, my skills at the time didn't command a very high price. Now, I typically keep it to about 100% profit. My six string guitars sell between $550 and $650 and they're worth every penny (probably more). The only reason I can do that is because my skills as a guitar maker have progressed to a point where it is reasonable to charge this much, not to mention the fact that I use some very high end hardware and electronics in my nicer guitars. I used to do things like buy premade six string necks, mostly because I wasn't comfortable relying on my skill alone to carve my own. Now, at this point, I refuse to use them because I can't stand to put my name on anything that came out of a CNC mill. I either drop in the rod and carve it myself or not at all.
Given the amount of time I spend working on each guitar (up to a few months sometimes), I'm sure I'm still not charging enough. Honestly, though, I'm not doing this for money. No matter what happens, I have to build guitars. If I didn't sell them, I'd put myself in the poor house.
Replies
If I'm not there actually PLAYING the instruments so they can hear the gritty growls as I play , my CBG's just hang on the wall.
But I can draw a crowd by playing all those sounds they like but didnt KNOW they liked until they heard them.
Thats how I sell, by attempting to get them to fall in love with the sound they hear before they even see the instrument, THEN I do my thing and throw the picth out to the whole crowd hoping 1 or 2 will buy.
It IS hard work sometimes, but if your wanting to sell they gotta hear it.
Building the instrument and hanging it on a wall somewhere dont usually do it.They simply dont know what the instrument is and tend to think its a toy. So you have to change their mind.
Anyone who wants "to make money" at building CBGs will have a tough go. You can either setup for mass production (like Roger) where you have an acceptable margin at $80 per, or you go for the high end limited custom builds where you can truly justify $ 300+ per. Other that this, I think most of us are hobby/crafters.
Craft building is almost always a "give the labor away" proposition. If you have better options, or if you don't love what you're doing so much so that all you want back is cost and "a new tool now and then", you won't be building long.
But, there is a way to beat the Ebay prices (remember Ebay ought to be considered wholesale or at most Dollar General pricing). The way to make each CBG price higher is to learn to play as good as you possibly can. What you have over Ebay is you can demo the CBG you're showing and the customer can have it in their hands before the sale. When I buy anything from Ebay, I have to get it at least % 20 under what I can get it in person (shipping included) or I won't touch it...I factor in an "Oh, heck, this isn't as good as I thought" factor.
If you hang in long enough, and you love building and you get good at your craft and you learn to play good and you are a smart marketer, you can make money at building CBGs.... How much depends on you...
the best,
Wichita Sam
L.J. said:
When I came up with the 100 dollar price. I sat down with a piece of paper in my shop. I wrote down a mark for every tool setup, and a mark for every point of labor on a standard build(3string fretless)not counting the oops factor. counting coats of poly,sanding,holes drilled, everything involved from start to finish. I came up with over 30 tool setups and over 100 points of labor.(youre builds may be more or less) then I thought about my costs at home depot and lowes for Glue,blades,tools,etc and my money for wood at the lumber yard,boxes,strings and tuners. My prices seemed more than fair after doing that. Probably not fair to me. Haaaa!
Roger Martin said:
Wes Yates said:
To do that I build sort of factory style. In that on a session I just build a slew of necks.While the necks are drying I get the boxes ready,( all my boxes are beefed up slightly .I'm aware that beefing up can kill some sound, but I strongly feel that its worth losing a bit in order to make the instrument tougher.Most of my sales are to people that never heard of a CBG or a DB.Their Simply walking into a tourist MAll and hearing an instrument for the 1st time and decide they want one, ( with a little help from me)
Because its an item they never heard of you'd be amazed at the questions I get concerning a box thats not perfect.They want a perfect box that appears like its never been used for cigars and looks perfect.
The numbers that I build to keep enough stock means that there's no way I can always have perfect boxes on hand.SO I have to do a song and dance to explain the history aspect of the instrument to counter their idea that its a professional made instrument that looks perfect.((((A lot of times they ask about the guarantee.))))
I really dont know how much time I spend on each one because I've never built just 1 instrument.If I had to guess how it breaks down I'd say,not counting drying time ,maybe an hour per piece, maybe,,,,,
With that build time in mind my prices AVERAGE about $77.95 for a simple 3 string CBG, depending on the price I PAID for the box itself and its desirability on its own etc.No frets, just drawn on.Its the reason I ONLY build sliders.
There is NO market here for fretted ( cost based on time ) unless your willing to give your time away,, and I'm not.
I try not to build CBG's that just look good hanging on the wall of the shop. In retail you have to pay rent on that section the CBG is hanging on, you cant afford to waste too much space on instruments that look good but dont sell.Its just the way retail is.
If you want a quick lesson on retail, say, you know how much that square yard of space costs you each month to rent,now multiply that by 12 months and you know how much you wasted on that space that didnt make you a dime.
Retail can be fun sometimes but it has some rules that you have to go by , if you want to make money.
I do love building these things, but not enough to lose money in the process.
When I started selling my guitars, I did so at a loss. A large part of that was because I was totally unknown and people didn't know if they wanted to gamble on the new guy. Also, my skills at the time didn't command a very high price. Now, I typically keep it to about 100% profit. My six string guitars sell between $550 and $650 and they're worth every penny (probably more). The only reason I can do that is because my skills as a guitar maker have progressed to a point where it is reasonable to charge this much, not to mention the fact that I use some very high end hardware and electronics in my nicer guitars. I used to do things like buy premade six string necks, mostly because I wasn't comfortable relying on my skill alone to carve my own. Now, at this point, I refuse to use them because I can't stand to put my name on anything that came out of a CNC mill. I either drop in the rod and carve it myself or not at all.
Given the amount of time I spend working on each guitar (up to a few months sometimes), I'm sure I'm still not charging enough. Honestly, though, I'm not doing this for money. No matter what happens, I have to build guitars. If I didn't sell them, I'd put myself in the poor house.
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