Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jim Mitchell on October 24, 2010 at 1:21pm

Hey Doug. If you go over to my page there is a picture to the neck tenon and the barrel bolt that I use. Kind of what a lot of guitar makers are using these days'... Is that what you are looking for? Also I have some stuff on my blog. (look at the older posts)
www.cigarcitycbgs.blogspot.com If I am not answering your question please let me know.


Douglas Eric Marsalis said:

Jim, do you have any pics of the truss rod set in the groove of the neck showing the tail end (where the neck would be bolted into the box)? I would like to see what you did. Very nice work by the way.


Douglas



Jim Mitchell said:

Here are some pictures of what my version looks like....

With this style of rod you can route a flat channel.







Douglas Eric Marsalis said:

I really appreciate the help fellas. I will have to do some experimenting with the rods. I am really surprised that homemade truss rods have not become the norm on the nation (for those that need them). Really, all I want is to keep the shape of the neck that I build with out it bending later on, so I may just try doing a straight rod and drop it in a channel that goes the length of the neck. The video that was posted was sweet too, so I will try that down the line too. Thanks again to all of those that replied.


D



Jim Mitchell said:

I hear you on the cost and work side..... What I am making now is based on this video along with a couple of other ideas I have picked up along the way. I don't do a lot of the grinding done in the video. To shape the coupler I use about a six inch piece of all-thread, I put the coupler on that and hold it to wheel on my grinder, it moves towards the end then I flip it over and repeat until it is round. Takes a minute or two... I have gone to cutting the channel down to size on my bandsaw and using a square nut in place of the tee-nut. This gets a touch of JB weld to hold it in place on the channel (Much faster). I then drill out the treads on another square nut to act as a washer on the cap screw side of the rod. The channel in the neck is the same width as the square nut and everything is tight. On my reso's I have been using hardwood Oak, Walnut or Maple so strength is not an issue. The real reason for going through all of the trouble is I use a bolt on neck with a scale length of 22" and I need a truss rod that is only 12" + or - (the length of the box comes into play). Since I have a small cut off saw and have made a number of these, I have it down to about 15 minutes. I agree it is a lot of work and the cost is similar if you can find what you are looking for buy it. You might also do some looking around on sites like MIMF music instrument makers forum, Frets and OLF these guys have years of experience making all kinds of guitars and stringed instruments... Hope this helps the cause... Jim




carverman said:

Jim Mitchell said:

I have used a variation of this in my builds. I don't know that it is worth the trouble to make them from scratch. I have been thinking of trying some of the shorter one available from BezDez ( I think that's their name) on Ebay...

Well, it certainly is a different method of making a truss rod. I've been buying the standard "Gibby" style from Stew-Mac on my builds as I have ordered other parts
from them, like a preslotted fingerboard. The truss rod is about $10 or $12,
and easy to insert inside the neck cavity (3/16" channel), but of course you have
to scallop out a chunk of wood where the brass adjuster nut is located behind the
string nut. This does weaken the wood in that area, but I've used walnut neck wood
and a volute for "belts and suspenders" method of making sure that the scalloped out
wood does not weaken the wood under tension right there if knocked on the headstock.


The method in the video is good too..but it looks like more filing has to be done..
as well as a 1/4 inch channel that needs to be routed out. The threaded rod and
t-nut/long nut are cheap..but in my neck of the woods, aluminum U channels cost
almost as much as the Stew-Mac Gibby style..so
I may continue with my method of making them from scratch using a rod.
..but I do like the extra rigidity of having an aluminum U channel in the neck.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by carverman on October 25, 2010 at 6:04am

Matt Towe said:

That square type is what Washburn used in their bass necks in the 80's - maybe still do. But once set , those things are rock solid ..... even under the tension of bass strings.
Anywhere between 150-200 lbs. is common on a bass, so that is gonna be more than strong enuff.

On a bass, thats what I would do. On a guitar, the "folded rod" method ( fishbake in the first reply) I think would be fine.
On a cbg, probably the most I would do is a piece or 2 of 1/8" x1/4" er so flat steel to act as a "stiffener".
This is commercially done ... usually with graphite rods to keep weight down, but I think the flat steel from Lowes or HD or where ever would be fine.


Matt - IMHO

Yes, I agree that an appropriate sized aluminum box channel (4 sides) would be rock solid.
But these are not always easy to find and require some routing in the neck. On a long scale
bass, it makes sense, on a 3or 4 string CBG..maybe not due to the expense and narrower
width of the neck.
However, on a 6 string, be it a CBG or a regular 6 string..adjustment of the fret action to
reduce buzzing is desirable. If one prefers high action, then I suppose it doesn't matter
as the high action (like a electric bass) will take care of any neck/FB fret descrepancies...
but on a 6 string that is tuned for the players specific playing style (and everyone is different),
then some adjustment like a torque rod or double torque rod (truss rod) is desirable.

Flat steel would have to inserted in a longitudinal channel (more like two--one on each side
of the fret board neck, and on their end..other wise there is no use using flat steel as
a stiffener because it will bend with the changes in the neck...nevermind the weight of
the steel, which can weigh more than a thin 3/16" diameter stainless steel rod.
Luthier supply companies do offer carbon fiber neck rods 1/8"T x 3/8 W x 18"L but these
are pricey too..$15 or more. I guess it boils down to individual preference..whether you like
a fixed solution or an adjustable solution ..or even a combination of both.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by carverman on October 25, 2010 at 6:14am

Douglas Eric Marsalis said:

Jim, do you have any pics of the truss rod set in the groove of the neck showing the tail end (where the neck would be bolted into the box)? I would like to see what you did. Very nice work by the way.


Douglas



Jim Mitchell said:

Here are some pictures of what my version looks like....

With this style of rod you can route a flat channel.







Douglas Eric Marsalis said:

I really appreciate the help fellas. I will have to do some experimenting with the rods. I am really surprised that homemade truss rods have not become the norm on the nation (for those that need them). Really, all I want is to keep the shape of the neck that I build with out it bending later on, so I may just try doing a straight rod and drop it in a channel that goes the length of the neck. The video that was posted was sweet too, so I will try that down the line too. Thanks again to all of those that replied.


D



Jim Mitchell said:

I hear you on the cost and work side..... What I am making now is based on this video along with a couple of other ideas I have picked up along the way. I don't do a lot of the grinding done in the video. To shape the coupler I use about a six inch piece of all-thread, I put the coupler on that and hold it to wheel on my grinder, it moves towards the end then I flip it over and repeat until it is round. Takes a minute or two... I have gone to cutting the channel down to size on my bandsaw and using a square nut in place of the tee-nut. This gets a touch of JB weld to hold it in place on the channel (Much faster). I then drill out the treads on another square nut to act as a washer on the cap screw side of the rod. The channel in the neck is the same width as the square nut and everything is tight. On my reso's I have been using hardwood Oak, Walnut or Maple so strength is not an issue. The real reason for going through all of the trouble is I use a bolt on neck with a scale length of 22" and I need a truss rod that is only 12" + or - (the length of the box comes into play). Since I have a small cut off saw and have made a number of these, I have it down to about 15 minutes. I agree it is a lot of work and the cost is similar if you can find what you are looking for buy it. You might also do some looking around on sites like MIMF music instrument makers forum, Frets and OLF these guys have years of experience making all kinds of guitars and stringed instruments... Hope this helps the cause... Jim




carverman said:

Jim Mitchell said:

I have used a variation of this in my builds. I don't know that it is worth the trouble to make them from scratch. I have been thinking of trying some of the shorter one available from BezDez ( I think that's their name) on Ebay...

Well, it certainly is a different method of making a truss rod. I've been buying the standard "Gibby" style from Stew-Mac on my builds as I have ordered other parts
from them, like a preslotted fingerboard. The truss rod is about $10 or $12,
and easy to insert inside the neck cavity (3/16" channel), but of course you have
to scallop out a chunk of wood where the brass adjuster nut is located behind the
string nut. This does weaken the wood in that area, but I've used walnut neck wood
and a volute for "belts and suspenders" method of making sure that the scalloped out
wood does not weaken the wood under tension right there if knocked on the headstock.


The method in the video is good too..but it looks like more filing has to be done..
as well as a 1/4 inch channel that needs to be routed out. The threaded rod and
t-nut/long nut are cheap..but in my neck of the woods, aluminum U channels cost
almost as much as the Stew-Mac Gibby style..so
I may continue with my method of making them from scratch using a rod.
..but I do like the extra rigidity of having an aluminum U channel in the neck.

Question to Douglas Marsalis; Very nice truss rod solution, but in the picture with the truss rod/U-Channel inserted in the neck, the closed side of the aluminum U-channel (box channel ?) is facing the FB. How is the the threaded rod going to distress/distort the box channel as shown in that picture? The purpose, (at least I thought), with including a aluminum U channel is extra stiffness with an adjustable truss rod to change the shape of the ( FB)fingerboard (concave or convex adjustmen) to compensate for a bow OR
dip in the neck/FB. How would this work in the picture shown?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jim Mitchell on October 25, 2010 at 9:21am

Did you watch the video? That should clear up your questions.


carverman said:

Douglas Eric Marsalis said:

Jim, do you have any pics of the truss rod set in the groove of the neck showing the tail end (where the neck would be bolted into the box)? I would like to see what you did. Very nice work by the way.


Douglas



Jim Mitchell said:

Here are some pictures of what my version looks like....

With this style of rod you can route a flat channel.







Douglas Eric Marsalis said:

I really appreciate the help fellas. I will have to do some experimenting with the rods. I am really surprised that homemade truss rods have not become the norm on the nation (for those that need them). Really, all I want is to keep the shape of the neck that I build with out it bending later on, so I may just try doing a straight rod and drop it in a channel that goes the length of the neck. The video that was posted was sweet too, so I will try that down the line too. Thanks again to all of those that replied.


D



Jim Mitchell said:

I hear you on the cost and work side..... What I am making now is based on this video along with a couple of other ideas I have picked up along the way. I don't do a lot of the grinding done in the video. To shape the coupler I use about a six inch piece of all-thread, I put the coupler on that and hold it to wheel on my grinder, it moves towards the end then I flip it over and repeat until it is round. Takes a minute or two... I have gone to cutting the channel down to size on my bandsaw and using a square nut in place of the tee-nut. This gets a touch of JB weld to hold it in place on the channel (Much faster). I then drill out the treads on another square nut to act as a washer on the cap screw side of the rod. The channel in the neck is the same width as the square nut and everything is tight. On my reso's I have been using hardwood Oak, Walnut or Maple so strength is not an issue. The real reason for going through all of the trouble is I use a bolt on neck with a scale length of 22" and I need a truss rod that is only 12" + or - (the length of the box comes into play). Since I have a small cut off saw and have made a number of these, I have it down to about 15 minutes. I agree it is a lot of work and the cost is similar if you can find what you are looking for buy it. You might also do some looking around on sites like MIMF music instrument makers forum, Frets and OLF these guys have years of experience making all kinds of guitars and stringed instruments... Hope this helps the cause... Jim




carverman said:

Jim Mitchell said:

I have used a variation of this in my builds. I don't know that it is worth the trouble to make them from scratch. I have been thinking of trying some of the shorter one available from BezDez ( I think that's their name) on Ebay...

Well, it certainly is a different method of making a truss rod. I've been buying the standard "Gibby" style from Stew-Mac on my builds as I have ordered other parts
from them, like a preslotted fingerboard. The truss rod is about $10 or $12,
and easy to insert inside the neck cavity (3/16" channel), but of course you have
to scallop out a chunk of wood where the brass adjuster nut is located behind the
string nut. This does weaken the wood in that area, but I've used walnut neck wood
and a volute for "belts and suspenders" method of making sure that the scalloped out
wood does not weaken the wood under tension right there if knocked on the headstock.


The method in the video is good too..but it looks like more filing has to be done..
as well as a 1/4 inch channel that needs to be routed out. The threaded rod and
t-nut/long nut are cheap..but in my neck of the woods, aluminum U channels cost
almost as much as the Stew-Mac Gibby style..so
I may continue with my method of making them from scratch using a rod.
..but I do like the extra rigidity of having an aluminum U channel in the neck.

Question to Douglas Marsalis;

Very nice truss rod solution, but in the picture with the truss rod/U-Channel inserted in the neck,
the closed side of the aluminum U-channel (box channel ?) is facing the FB.

How is the the threaded rod going to distress/distort the box channel as shown in that picture?
The purpose, (at least I thought), with including a aluminum U channel is extra stiffness with an adjustable truss rod to change the shape of the ( FB)fingerboard (concave or convex adjustmen) to compensate for a bow OR
dip in the neck/FB.

How would this work in the picture shown?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Roosterman on October 26, 2010 at 5:41am

Or.... use a lump of 12mm square bar. Hey presto, 2 minute non-adjustable but strong as hell truss :o)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Fred Johnson on October 30, 2010 at 12:15am

To keep things simple and cheap I epoxy glued a piece of steel flat bar into a close fitting slot in the sycamore neck of my cbg11 six string

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by carverman on October 30, 2010 at 6:04am

Sounds interesting. I'm trying to keep costs down on mine. I have the slot routered for a 3/16
round truss rod..but I'm interested in any innovation that will keep the costs down.
Is it too late to show a pic of it without the fretboard glued on?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Fred Johnson on November 1, 2010 at 4:09am

There is a photo of the unfinished neck of my 6 string on my page hope its of some help

carverman said:

Sounds interesting. I'm trying to keep costs down on mine. I have the slot routered for a 3/16
round truss rod..but I'm interested in any innovation that will keep the costs down.
Is it too late to show a pic of it without the fretboard glued on?

• ▶ Reply

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