Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bad Finger (Eric) on September 27, 2013 at 11:47pm

Don't give up. Next time make your measurements all from the nut, not fret to fret. Play this one with a slide and let your ear guide you to the notes. Don't let this one stop you from fretting.

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Permalink Reply by The Capo Kid on September 28, 2013 at 7:33am

Am I missing something here ,but where is the bridge ? , looks like you've just looped the strings round the tail and using that as a bridge , make a softwood bridge slightly higher than the strings , lift the strings and slide it under the strings and measure from the face of the nut to the centre of the 12th fret and use that measurement to place the temp bridge , that will give your scale length , then if you find out the frets are wrong lift the strings and use as a slide guitar

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Permalink Reply by BUGGY (C) on September 30, 2013 at 10:45am

It took me ages to realise that if you use a bolt the centre needs to be dead over the centre of where the zero fret would be

and they never are. Plus depending wher ethe string  run over it could make its slightly off to one side.

Mine greatly improved by junking the bolt and putting a jumo zero fret in place of the bolt then use standard frets.

I am told you can move this position slightly forwards and back without too mcuh damage to your intonation.

Plus the bolt at the back will never be straight to get your intonation right. Check you guitar bridge if you have one.

they are normally slightly angled. Another issue can be if the frets werent 100 % at 90 degree with the way you cut them.

I myself need to get a decent mitre saw with no movement to cure this, or cut along a L edge if your neck side is dead straight and flat. 

The fretted note and the harmonic should match at the 12th fet if its correct, try moving brige about asuming it has room to move back to the right scale length position.. which can somethimes be an issue with the shorter box of a CBG.

Hope this helps in some way and good luck I would be interested to also learn what it was that is causing it.

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Permalink Reply by BUGGY (C) on September 30, 2013 at 10:47am

Also can anyone add the bit about scale length and string angle compensation to this?

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Permalink Reply by Brian Revels on September 30, 2013 at 11:52am

After putting a small bolt under the hinge/tail piece/new bridge... this changed things to where my harmonics are back at the 5th, 7th, and 12th (like they were before).  It seems you can't tune it by ear at the 4th and 5th by fretting the 2nd and 3rd  strings (fretting the 2nd string at the 4th fret gives me a "B" +90 and fretting the 3rd string gives me a "D" -50) , but if you can tune with harmonics they are spot on.  

Chording the strings, regular chords and/or power chords, ring true with the tuner.  It's just so odd that fretting each singular string at each fret shows them to be off, according to the tuner.  All in all, I think I am okay with it now that I got the harmonics back (since the chords ring out correctly and the pickup wired in series with the piezo buzzer actually sound pretty good together).

Here's a pic of my next one I have started... fretless to say the least. lol

 

Attachments:

• Punch Box Guitar.JPG, 538 KB

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Permalink Reply by Bad Finger (Eric) on September 30, 2013 at 1:35pm

Whether you fret or just mark lines, you run into the same issues. Don't be afraid to fret it.

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Permalink Reply by The Capo Kid on September 30, 2013 at 11:15pm

 Have you got a bridge position ? , you seem to be making the same mistake again making the neck before you've got the bridge position ,

 Measure from where your nut will be 25 1/2 inches and put a piece of tape and mark your scale length , what I do is lightly mark the frets in pencil on the neck , put on one tuner and one string , tune up to pitch and check it , I use a toothpick for a temp nut and a bit of small bolt as a temp bridge just so the strings clear the neck , and you can move the bridge to get the intonation right , mark that position and when the builds finished and strung up you have it roughly intonated .

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Brian Revels on October 1, 2013 at 2:08am

I actually did mark off the bridge position at 25"... going for a medium sound. You can't see where I marked it though cause it's inside the box in the pic. I hadn't got very far in the build when I snapped the pic. I mainly got the neck measured the way I wanted it, the holes drilled for the hardware, and started a slight groove where the nut will go.

The bridge should go almost directly in the middle between the screw in the back (closest to the tail piece) and the edge of the logo on the box, maybe closer to the "P" than I think.  But I will measure it out and float the bridge so I can adjust it as needed.

Thanks for the advice...

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Permalink Reply by Bad Finger (Eric) on October 1, 2013 at 12:55am

I revise my last reply now that I see your pic on my computer screen.  Fretless is the way to go with that guitar unless you glue on a fretboard that sticks up above the level of the box.  Slick looking build.  Are planning to do 6 strings, or is there something else going on there?

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Permalink Reply by Brian Revels on October 1, 2013 at 1:51am

Thanks.  It's going to be a 3 stringer, but trying something simpler from the first build... eye bolts for the tuners. I just marked off for frets 1-7 and then the 12th. I got the neck marked and stained last night.  I hope to finish this thing by midweek.  

Thanks everyone for your help.  We'll see and I'll let you know how much better this one is intonation-wise.  I measured each fret marker from the nut this time.  It should be pretty close. I'm excited, even though it will mainly be a slide guitar.

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Permalink Reply by darryl kernaghan on October 1, 2013 at 2:56am

my 2 cents brian,choose your box,select a scale length to bring yourself int the range of where your bridge Should sound best.my limited knowledge suggests approx.2/3 from the nut end of box,measure fretts cumulatively from nut,f 12 should be 1/2 way to bridge,leave bridge floating for time being,check intonation,depending on string guages and preferred tuning,the bridge will probably lie3-4 degsforward at high strings to low,fudge and play here ,my method on a 3 stringer,get middle dead right ,and just rotate bridge on centre line,alto f/ward,bass rearward,,should get you near i hope

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Permalink Reply by David McQueen on October 1, 2013 at 4:13am

Brian I think you are making your life hard here.

Get yourself a piece of 1/4", x 1 1/2" wood, cheap poplar will do.

Below is a 25.5" scale measuring chart I cabbaged off the net. there are lots of scales around. This is the most common used and is closest to the classical guitar scale.

Very carefully, starting at fret 0, which is the location of the nut, mark off your board.  Also put a mark at the 25.5" mark.This shows you where the bridge will be.

Then take a square or a T-square and mark across for each one.  Now you have a fret ruler.

Check it out on a guitar with a 25.5" scale. The lines should match up with the actual frets and the bridge location.

1. You can use this to transfer measurements to the fret board you are building. Just clamp the two together and use a square to bring the marks over.

2. You can use this to see how long you have to leave the neck and where on the box the bridge will end up. That is, you can plan for where the bridge will be on the guitar on a through neck by designing for the right location of the box. On small boxes, the frets probably will not come al the way to the box. There may be a blank section of fret board bet5ween the last fret and the box top.

3. For cutting your frets, again, use a square. Put the fret saw on top of the mark at the edge of the board and then bring the square up to the saw. Then let the rest of the saw drop down on the board along the square and use it as a saw guide cutting your slots. It takes a bit to get the hang of it.

4. The distance from the nut is the distance from where the string actually breaks off from the nut towards the bridge. On a square nut, it is the nut edge.  Using a bolt it is most likely at the center or just off center.

You should be able to copy and paste this into a word processor, spread sheet or text editor and clean it up.

Hope this helps.

25.5" scale

Fret       Dist. from Nut

0         0.000

1         1.431

2         2.782

3         4.057

4         5.261

5         6.397

6         7.469

7         8.481

8         9.436

9       10.338

10      11.189

11      11.992

12      12.750

13      13.466

14      14.141

15      14.779

16      15.380

17      15.948

18      16.484

19      16.990

20      17.468

21      17.919

22      18.344

23      18.746

24       19.125

Bridge 25.5"

If you cannot find a decimal ruler Here are equivalents.

Inches                             Decimal

1/64                                  0.015625

1/32 - 2/64                         0.03125

3/64                                  0.046875

1/16 - 2/32 - 4/64                0.0625

5/64                                   0.078125

3/32 - 6/64                           0.09375

7/64                                    0.109375

1/8 - 2/16 - 4/32 - 8/64           0.125

9/64                                      0.140625

5/32 - 10/64                           0.15625

11/64                                    0.171875

3/16 - 6/32 - 12/64                  0.1875

13/64                                     0.203125

7/32 - 14/64                            0.21875

15/64                                     0.234375

1/4 - 2/8 - 4/16 - 8/32 - 16/64    0.25

17/64                                     0.265625

9/32 - 18/64                           0.28125

19/64                                      0.296875

5/16 - 10/32 - 20/64                   0.3125

21/64                                       0.328125

11/32 - 22/64                            0.34375

23/64                                       0.359375

3/8 - 6/16 - 12/32 - 24/64            0.375

25/64                                      0.390625

13/32 - 26/64                           0.40625

27/64                                      0.421875

7/16 - 14/32 - 28/64                 0.4375

29/64                                       0.453125

15/32 - 30/64                            0.46875

31/64                                      0.484375

1/2 - 2/4 - 4/8 - 8/16 - 16/32 - 32/64   0.5

33/64                                     0.515625

17/32 - 34/64                           0.53125

35/64                                    0.546875

9/16 - 18/32 - 36/64                 0.5625

37/64                                     0.578125

19/32 - 38/64                          0.59375

39/64                                     0.609375

5/8 -10/16 - 20/32 - 40/64        0.625

41/64                                     0.640625

21/32 - 42/64                          0.65625

43/64                                     0.671875

11/16 - 22/32 - 44/64                0.6875

45/64                                     0.703125

23/32 - 46/64                          0.71875

47/64                                     0.734375

3/4 - 6/8 - 12/16 - 24/32 - 48/64   0.75

49/64                                       0.765625

25/32 - 50/64                           0.78125

51/64                                     0.796875

13/16 - 26/32 - 52/64                   0.8125

53/64                                        0.828125

27/32 - 54/64                               0.84375

55/64                                        0.859375

7/8 - 14/16 - 28/32 - 56/64         0.875

57/64                                       0.890625

29/32 - 58/64                             0.90625

59/64                                       0.921875

15/16 - 30/32 - 60/64                 0.9375

61/64                                      0.953125

31/32 - 62/64                            0.96875

63/64                                       0.984375

1 - 2/2 - 4/4 - 8/8 - 16/16 - 32/32 - 64/64       1

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