Hi CBGer's,
After about 3 hours on ebay last night and drooling over the many boxes there, I have a question or 2 that I hope you folks can help with. What is the best average box size and depth to look for when making a CBG? I fell in love with this style box with its rounded edges/body but fear the lip may create problems when adding the neck.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270458326137&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
I also liked this one but if I am not mistaken, it most likely is a vaneered exterior, can they also be used or does this extra layer of wood deaden the sound?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310168609058&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Thanks in advance!
Stacey
You need to be a member of Cigar Box Nation to add comments!
My 8th graders would make surprising choices in how they wanted the necks situated relative to the boxes, round square caddy-cornered, whatever. We always found a way to make them work: measuring carefully, thinking through angles for acute or cantilevered cuts on the neck, and sometimes small portions of the lid. It helped to not make the final cut(s) on the butt end of the neck until the neck fit properly where it passed into the box.
I always suggested that they remove any paper from inside the box: sandpaper to rough it up, a few minutes softening with a damp (NOT wet) rag and scrape the paper off w/ putty knife or perpendicular chisel. The glue always was water based... a few years ago anyway. Just avoid the pressed-paper type of cigar box... the laminated wood type worked great... often with a brighter banjo-like sound than a similarly sized dovetailed wooden box.
I think thin-veneer plywood is more rigid w/ a higher resonant frequency -higher pitched fundamental?- than single layer softwood (tropical cedar). The plywood & paper boxes may be naturally more suited for higher pitched instruments w shorter necks and or thinner strings.
We tried a pretty wide variety of clear-coat finishes over both wood & paper-covered boxes. The slick-looking type paper took a coat well. If the paper had a scratch or roughed-up portion, then the clearcoat soaked in and made a darker blotch. Same for the edge of the paper where a sound port was cut. Call it a birth-mark... and accept it for personality.
Corner protectors- We never used them. The boxes were all reinforced with corner-molding-like lengths of wood on inside corners... especially with the paper covered boxes. Any patina was sanded before gluing. [We had some challenging lessons if the glued box was allowed to dry w/o checking to be sure that it was squared up.] A couple-three layers of clearcoat does a lot of protecting.
Randy Rooster (Ben) said:
Hi Stacey, and welcome!
As you have probably gathered by now, everyone does things their own way here, everyone has their favourites and their little tricks.
Generally, I would agree that bigger boxes are better - I always look for min 9" boxes, and 11"+ are the best in my book. They are easier to hold when playing and produce a decent volume. There are so many other variables though that, at this stage, I wouldnt get too bogged down in the 'thinking' part!
Those boxes you have are cool! I say use 'em! The thought of using a curved box might be worrysome, but all you'll be doing is cutting at right angles to the lid, straight down, to let the neck in. No shaping required. Same as what you would do to a flat edged box, in theory...
And you can always come back and ask for help if you get stuck
As you have probably gathered by now, everyone does things their own way here, everyone has their favourites and their little tricks.
Generally, I would agree that bigger boxes are better - I always look for min 9" boxes, and 11"+ are the best in my book. They are easier to hold when playing and produce a decent volume. There are so many other variables though that, at this stage, I wouldnt get too bogged down in the 'thinking' part!
Those boxes you have are cool! I say use 'em! The thought of using a curved box might be worrysome, but all you'll be doing is cutting at right angles to the lid, straight down, to let the neck in. No shaping required. Same as what you would do to a flat edged box, in theory...
And you can always come back and ask for help if you get stuck
Here it is,
Your gonna screw up once in a while,the idea is to have fun.I think it out a LITTLE BIT and then grab the dremel and start wackin away LOL
Pretty soon theres a hole there that the neck will fit in, sometimes I could fit 2 necks in there LOL
I went through the period where I worried too much about looks and it slowed down the fun.
Now I glance at what I want to do, lay the end of the neck on the box and mark out the hole and then just cut the sucker out.
If I screw up then that CBG gets a few extra pieces of "fancy" wood around the neck to hide my super creative "artistic" fub,,,
I freely tell my customers that their only paying a small price for a lot of fun, their not paying 1,000's of dollars for a Fender that their afraid to play for fear of putting a scratch on it.This seems to help get the money out of their pocket that their trying to hang on too LOL
My first builds were Padron and easy as can be. I would suggest "the bigger the better." I've got a small, skinny Padron box begging to be a fiddle. My guitars have sounded better with bigger boxes though. I haven't built on paper yet but I've got a pretty sweet Punch that'll be under construction soon.
Those are great boxes, but look a little heavy. I've built on Opus X boxes before and think them better suited for wound pickups.... beautiful but demanding build.
As far as paper covered wood, don't worry about it... if you play 20 hours a week... yes you can wear the paper off, but so? ... you will have some nice mojo by then and won't worry about "pretty".....
My preference in size is no smaller than 9"x6"x2" for guitars. Smaller boxes Work good for Ukuleles. I like at least close to 2" depth because I prefer the acoustic they produce. If you like the electric sound better that thinner is fine. Most of it is personal preference. Look at the photo section, watch some video and decide from there what you like. Don't have to be super selective, you will has at least 30 boxes lying around before you are through, trust me...
Bonehead is building "turbo-dulicmers" this way lately too. He just cut about a zillion necks all in one go!
tinyguitars said:
If you're worried about the rounded edges, mount the neck to the top of the box instead, like a dulcimer. It will not hamper the sound at all and should simplify your build. The only difference is you'll have to cut out a strum hollow, like a dulcimer. As shown in the picture below. May God bless you. :)
Hi Diane and ty for replying. Yes this will be my first build and I was afraid you'd say that about the rounded edging...sigh... so I guess I'll have to hunt around for a square or rectangular box for building until I get my feet better planted. Any imput on how to treat a paper covered wooden box? I've seen some folks put metal corner guards on theirs, seems like a good idea to prevent wear marks but what about the paper part? Suggestions anyone?
IMHO, those rounded corners will give you more opportunities/complications that a really square box. This is your first build, yes?
So I'd steer you to a nice square tried 'n' true Padron. Usually not too expensive, either.
Unless you turn that first one 90 degrees and work of the squared up sides. I'm doing that on a build going right now -- I didn't want to fool with that curved face. I'll have to take off the clasp, and be prepared to never open it again, but it's acoustic that that's okay.
Replies
My 8th graders would make surprising choices in how they wanted the necks situated relative to the boxes, round square caddy-cornered, whatever. We always found a way to make them work: measuring carefully, thinking through angles for acute or cantilevered cuts on the neck, and sometimes small portions of the lid. It helped to not make the final cut(s) on the butt end of the neck until the neck fit properly where it passed into the box.
I always suggested that they remove any paper from inside the box: sandpaper to rough it up, a few minutes softening with a damp (NOT wet) rag and scrape the paper off w/ putty knife or perpendicular chisel. The glue always was water based... a few years ago anyway. Just avoid the pressed-paper type of cigar box... the laminated wood type worked great... often with a brighter banjo-like sound than a similarly sized dovetailed wooden box.
I think thin-veneer plywood is more rigid w/ a higher resonant frequency -higher pitched fundamental?- than single layer softwood (tropical cedar). The plywood & paper boxes may be naturally more suited for higher pitched instruments w shorter necks and or thinner strings.
We tried a pretty wide variety of clear-coat finishes over both wood & paper-covered boxes. The slick-looking type paper took a coat well. If the paper had a scratch or roughed-up portion, then the clearcoat soaked in and made a darker blotch. Same for the edge of the paper where a sound port was cut. Call it a birth-mark... and accept it for personality.
Corner protectors- We never used them. The boxes were all reinforced with corner-molding-like lengths of wood on inside corners... especially with the paper covered boxes. Any patina was sanded before gluing. [We had some challenging lessons if the glued box was allowed to dry w/o checking to be sure that it was squared up.] A couple-three layers of clearcoat does a lot of protecting.
Randy Rooster (Ben) said:
As you have probably gathered by now, everyone does things their own way here, everyone has their favourites and their little tricks.
Generally, I would agree that bigger boxes are better - I always look for min 9" boxes, and 11"+ are the best in my book. They are easier to hold when playing and produce a decent volume. There are so many other variables though that, at this stage, I wouldnt get too bogged down in the 'thinking' part!
Those boxes you have are cool! I say use 'em! The thought of using a curved box might be worrysome, but all you'll be doing is cutting at right angles to the lid, straight down, to let the neck in. No shaping required. Same as what you would do to a flat edged box, in theory...
And you can always come back and ask for help if you get stuck
Best of luck!!
Your gonna screw up once in a while,the idea is to have fun.I think it out a LITTLE BIT and then grab the dremel and start wackin away LOL
Pretty soon theres a hole there that the neck will fit in, sometimes I could fit 2 necks in there LOL
I went through the period where I worried too much about looks and it slowed down the fun.
Now I glance at what I want to do, lay the end of the neck on the box and mark out the hole and then just cut the sucker out.
If I screw up then that CBG gets a few extra pieces of "fancy" wood around the neck to hide my super creative "artistic" fub,,,
I freely tell my customers that their only paying a small price for a lot of fun, their not paying 1,000's of dollars for a Fender that their afraid to play for fear of putting a scratch on it.This seems to help get the money out of their pocket that their trying to hang on too LOL
Those are great boxes, but look a little heavy. I've built on Opus X boxes before and think them better suited for wound pickups.... beautiful but demanding build.
As far as paper covered wood, don't worry about it... if you play 20 hours a week... yes you can wear the paper off, but so? ... you will have some nice mojo by then and won't worry about "pretty".....
Or, add corners... doesn't really matter,
the best,
Wichita Sam
tinyguitars said:
So I'd steer you to a nice square tried 'n' true Padron. Usually not too expensive, either.
Unless you turn that first one 90 degrees and work of the squared up sides. I'm doing that on a build going right now -- I didn't want to fool with that curved face. I'll have to take off the clasp, and be prepared to never open it again, but it's acoustic that that's okay.