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Action - Fretted and Slide??

Posted by Rastus on January 24, 2010 at 11:22pm in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion

Morning all,

 

Can I get your feedback please.  Building my first fretted CBG.  I want to play it as a slide guitar but also fret some notes.  What action can you get away with  so you dont pull the note too sharp when you play it fretted?

I do find it difficult to play slide well on guitars with low actions, so Im kind of looking for a compromise here.

 

Cheers

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Replies

  • Rastus January 25, 2010 at 7:18pm
    thanks for your responses. Chickenbone, yes, tuning down half to whole step does make it easier to acccidently pull out of tune. This is especially noticeable on the lap steel - if i tune down, just the weight of the bar can oull it out - not too noticeable playing by myself, but as soon as you start jamming with others it becomes obvious -
  • ChickenboneJohn January 25, 2010 at 4:58pm
    The main problem most people face when trying to play slide is clattering the strings against the lower frets with the slide. A bit of extra tension in the strings will help (and the conventional way is to use heavier gauges for dropped tunings), and little bit of extra height at the nut will also help. This slightly higher action can be especially useful for beginners - the better you get and the more refined your touch with the slide gets, the easier it is to play with a more conventional action.

    It's not purely about avoiding hitting the frets though, as for solo playing on the top string, you need to be able to angle the slide so you catch only the top string, and a little extra height above the fretboard helps with this.

    Kenny is right in saying that the action can be exactly the same height as for conventional playing (these days I find I can pretty well put any guitar in an open tuning and play slide), but most beginners find this set-up can be difficult to learn slide on.

    Too high an action at the nut will most definitely cause you to pull the notes sharp when fretting, but you only need a little extra height to make slide playing so much easier to learn. I find that having the strings at a lower tension (ie tuned down a semi-tone or tone) seems to make them even more prone to pulling out of tune when fretting..I'm not sure if this is a psychological effect, or if I tend to bend them across the fretboard as well when there is less tension in the strings. It's too late in the day for me to figure out the force vectors involved in the two different conditions to see if I can prove the theory one way or the other.
  • Keni Lee Burgess January 25, 2010 at 8:13am
    There is a lot of confusion about this point. Please allow me to share what I have come to understand.
    String action for slide guitar can be exactly the same height that you set for playing standard guitar and fretting notes.
    The string tension needed for the slide to ride properly is a relationship between TUNING and STRING GUAGE.
    If you are utilizing open tunings above standard like E and A, you must use lighter strings than the heavier strings you must use for lower tunings like D and G. The guitar needs to be set up for a specific purpose.
    High action is not good. You cannot fret note. Please feel free to write if you have further questions.
    Please see:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/KeniLeeBurgess#p/c/8CCC454EB3731DC5/1/s...

    http://shop.ebay.com/njmikeb/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&a...
  • Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates January 25, 2010 at 7:13am
    John, I wonder what the effect would be [besides the completely obvious] if [Rastus] were to tune down a half or whole step? Meaning I wonder of any out-of-tune issues would be lessened...

    -WY

    ChickenboneJohn said:
    I tend to do this by feel rather than by measuring, but I've just checked a couple of 3 string fretted that I've just made. They are showing just under 1/16" at the first fret, and that feels high to me. This is where it's most critical, as you can get away with fairly high action at the 12th fret (say 1/8") without 'pulling' the notes too much.

    It is bound to be a compromise set-up, and if you use heavier strings to give you a bit more resistance for slide, then obviously it will be harder to fret. I find the more I play slide, the better I can tolerate light strings and low action.
  • Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates January 25, 2010 at 7:11am
    Make sure you know that a higher action might cause out-of-tune issues. Not in the slide, but in the freting of notes. I say might because that will depend on how you fret the instrument. I can't really advise, but I know that if I have the action too high on mine, especially at the nut, the lower notes tend to be sharp. Slide playing is a matter of feel and listening.

    Listen to what ChickenboneJohn says.

    -WY
  • ChickenboneJohn January 25, 2010 at 12:41am
    I tend to do this by feel rather than by measuring, but I've just checked a couple of 3 string fretted that I've just made. They are showing just under 1/16" at the first fret, and that feels high to me. This is where it's most critical, as you can get away with fairly high action at the 12th fret (say 1/8") without 'pulling' the notes too much.

    It is bound to be a compromise set-up, and if you use heavier strings to give you a bit more resistance for slide, then obviously it will be harder to fret. I find the more I play slide, the better I can tolerate light strings and low action.
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