Was reading an acoustic build how-to from a guy who gets up to 5k for one guitar. I didn't know this and am hoping it'll help with folks builds here. I took this quote from the tutorial.
"On a side note I did deliberately make one side a little bit smaller than the other. This is because when the guitar is perfectly symetrical the sound waves will collide with each other inside the guitar and you will get wave cancellation. Basically this means the guitar won't sound as good."
He was referring to the bent sides of an acoustic. He builds his own jigs for each costume build.
Just a thought, I'm wondering if putting the neck just slightly off center would work?
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Steve
The wave radio incorporates a wave guide. Typically wave guides are tuned to a particular note. The easiest explanation is the flute. It is a resonant wave guide with variable length (finger holes). Small amount of energy in, room filling sound out. To extend the range of the wave guide the wave radio uses two varied length wave guides ("tubes") to extend the lower frequencies range of response of the small long throw bass driver (only one produces bass the other is low mids and up only). The problem with even this approach is that the bandwidth of resonant gain is still very narrow. This would make the technology less than suitable for a broad range instrument.
If you wanted to extend the bass range of a small driver in an amp, this could work but between the math and build challenges, it would probably be easier to use a larger driver. Just don't try to sell them as they are very litigious.
Steve said:
So here's something I'm toying with. I was looking at the Bose Radio cutaway. Interesting baffling. Would similar baffling make a box sound better? Or maybe piezo with the lm amp and 2" speakers with baffles built inside the box projecting out some sound holes.
um....Matt? still trying to tell if your tongue is "in your cheek" on this one.
I think the E you're referring to is 329 Hz (without the "Mega" in front of it). 329 MHz is near the low end of microwave radiation frequencies. 329MHz electromagnetic waves have a wavelength around 3 ft, a 329 MHz sound wave would have a wavelength around 0.00004 inches (someone else check the math :P )
A 329 Hz sound wave has a wave length around 40 inches, I think (again, someone else can check my math).
All that said, I don't disagree with the conclusion, I treat my guitar with snake-oil bought from a traveling medicine show, the guy promised me it would make all the difference :)
But really, how symmetrical IS a guitar, really?? I mean, on a six string, every string is off-center??
Matt Towe said:
For us ... yeah, luck o the draw. Consider this. The hi E string is 329.63 Mhz ( this info is internet obtained, so your milage may vary) This means that one wavelength ( the thing that "causes" frequencies ) is .36 ( 36 thousandths).
Harmonics would do exactly the same as the main, so you have a variation window of .36 to keep from having a shape that would allow cancellation.
So here's something I'm toying with. I was looking at the Bose Radio cutaway. Interesting baffling. Would similar baffling make a box sound better? Or maybe piezo with the lm amp and 2" speakers with baffles built inside the box projecting out some sound holes.
So. I have built a bunch of dulcimers. I heard something about shape making a difference, so I ask my oldest son about it.
wHO HAPPENS TO BE PRETTI SMART IN MATH. hE SAID IT WAS ALL ABOUT PHYSICS. ( Sry about caps) Square corners let the sound die in them. So I added angled banding at the edges. Inside of course. Same as a guitar. Not sure it made a difference, but it was something to do and brag about. And I think it made a difference, so I'm all smugg and happy. :}:}
The thing I noticed on the CB's was placement of the sound holes. Big difference. Seems to be about size and placement.
Experiment with that, and I think you will fine the best sound. CB's were not built to project sound, so we are in the hole to start with. I use something to amplfy the sound. I like a small lapel mic as good as a pizo pick-up. EAsy to install too.
My 2 cents worth. DON
i don't know about symetrical or asymetrical but i have had pretty good success with using small thing pieces of wood to round out the internal corners of my boxes to make them actually louder acoustically? instead of just leaving the corners square in the inside. it seems to make the sound louder unplugged.
Don't let it die, the idea may have some merit, although it may be very minute and missed by my ears. In racing the big teams and fast guys try every little minute detail for the smallest bit of extra go. I'm guessing this is one of those thing, where you've done it all now try one more thing for the ultimate in sound. So give it a try, can't hurt.
My own unscientific idea for better sounding cbg is keep it as simple as possible, no extra's on the sound board, minimal in the box, just a cigar box and a stick and some strings. Less is more. No rules, Build On Nation!!
Paul Stephen Eklund said:
Thanks again for everyones input. Boy am I glad this wasn't my idea. LOL
I only have one nice acoustic so I made a trace of it. Yep, both sides are identical. All I have is a Mid 70's Yamaha. If someone here has a Gibson, Marten or Fender be cool to hear if yours is also asymmetrical.
I'm not letting this idea die! Wrong? off the wall? Useless? I don't care! I like kicking a dead horse. JK LOL
The top of an acoustic is usually asymmetrically braced, so "the sound waves inside the guitar" wouldn't be symmetrical to start with. Different frequencies cause the top to move in all sorts of chaotic ways: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/guitar/patterns.html
Then again, Larrivee mostly uses symmetrical bracing patterns and it's great.
I'm convinced that most of what people think they know about guitar acoustics is hocus-pocus.
From now on when that neck is not quite aligned straight, it's a (cough,cough) design feature, improves the tone.
Paul Stephen Eklund said:
Thanks again for everyones input. Boy am I glad this wasn't my idea. LOL
I only have one nice acoustic so I made a trace of it. Yep, both sides are identical. All I have is a Mid 70's Yamaha. If someone here has a Gibson, Marten or Fender be cool to hear if yours is also asymmetrical.
I'm not letting this idea die! Wrong? off the wall? Useless? I don't care! I like kicking a dead horse. JK LOL
Thanks again for everyones input. Boy am I glad this wasn't my idea. LOL
I only have one nice acoustic so I made a trace of it. Yep, both sides are identical. All I have is a Mid 70's Yamaha. If someone here has a Gibson, Marten or Fender be cool to hear if yours is also asymmetrical.
I'm not letting this idea die! Wrong? off the wall? Useless? I don't care! I like kicking a dead horse. JK LOL
For us ... yeah, luck o the draw.
Consider this. The hi E string is 329.63 Mhz ( this info is internet obtained, so your milage may vary)
This means that one wavelength ( the thing that "causes" frequencies ) is .36 ( 36 thousandths).
Harmonics would do exactly the same as the main, so you have a variation window of .36 to keep from having a shape that would allow cancellation.
Replies
The wave radio incorporates a wave guide. Typically wave guides are tuned to a particular note. The easiest explanation is the flute. It is a resonant wave guide with variable length (finger holes). Small amount of energy in, room filling sound out. To extend the range of the wave guide the wave radio uses two varied length wave guides ("tubes") to extend the lower frequencies range of response of the small long throw bass driver (only one produces bass the other is low mids and up only). The problem with even this approach is that the bandwidth of resonant gain is still very narrow. This would make the technology less than suitable for a broad range instrument.
If you wanted to extend the bass range of a small driver in an amp, this could work but between the math and build challenges, it would probably be easier to use a larger driver. Just don't try to sell them as they are very litigious.
Steve said:
I think the E you're referring to is 329 Hz (without the "Mega" in front of it). 329 MHz is near the low end of microwave radiation frequencies. 329MHz electromagnetic waves have a wavelength around 3 ft, a 329 MHz sound wave would have a wavelength around 0.00004 inches (someone else check the math :P )
A 329 Hz sound wave has a wave length around 40 inches, I think (again, someone else can check my math).
All that said, I don't disagree with the conclusion, I treat my guitar with snake-oil bought from a traveling medicine show, the guy promised me it would make all the difference :)
But really, how symmetrical IS a guitar, really?? I mean, on a six string, every string is off-center??
Matt Towe said:
wHO HAPPENS TO BE PRETTI SMART IN MATH. hE SAID IT WAS ALL ABOUT PHYSICS. ( Sry about caps) Square corners let the sound die in them. So I added angled banding at the edges. Inside of course. Same as a guitar. Not sure it made a difference, but it was something to do and brag about. And I think it made a difference, so I'm all smugg and happy. :}:}
The thing I noticed on the CB's was placement of the sound holes. Big difference. Seems to be about size and placement.
Experiment with that, and I think you will fine the best sound. CB's were not built to project sound, so we are in the hole to start with. I use something to amplfy the sound. I like a small lapel mic as good as a pizo pick-up. EAsy to install too.
My 2 cents worth. DON
My own unscientific idea for better sounding cbg is keep it as simple as possible, no extra's on the sound board, minimal in the box, just a cigar box and a stick and some strings. Less is more. No rules, Build On Nation!!
Paul Stephen Eklund said:
Then again, Larrivee mostly uses symmetrical bracing patterns and it's great.
I'm convinced that most of what people think they know about guitar acoustics is hocus-pocus.
Paul Stephen Eklund said:
I only have one nice acoustic so I made a trace of it. Yep, both sides are identical. All I have is a Mid 70's Yamaha. If someone here has a Gibson, Marten or Fender be cool to hear if yours is also asymmetrical.
I'm not letting this idea die! Wrong? off the wall? Useless? I don't care! I like kicking a dead horse. JK LOL
Consider this. The hi E string is 329.63 Mhz ( this info is internet obtained, so your milage may vary)
This means that one wavelength ( the thing that "causes" frequencies ) is .36 ( 36 thousandths).
Harmonics would do exactly the same as the main, so you have a variation window of .36 to keep from having a shape that would allow cancellation.
Yeah, right.
Matt
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