Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by CaptNick on December 16, 2010 at 12:53am

Keni Lee,

Very good advice!! I did just what you suggested, bought a cbg for my nephew an excellent guitarist and teacher and until the weather got really cold he was helping me considerably, we hope to start back soon and this is a very good way to learn the cbg way of playing.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on December 16, 2010 at 1:28am

Keni, gotta love your efforts man, You are a patient, giving soul! But if the word "theory" didnt turn off some brains, this sentence might have:

"CGC(GCE) I just have it tuned up to D (ADF#) so I can use GDG tuning on CBG and tune ADF# without changing strings."

Man, I know (I think) what your saying and that one hurt! LOL!

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on December 16, 2010 at 2:26am

LOL! In a way, the more you get into something, the more you turn into a geek. I am definitely an open tuning geek. After years of seeing open tuning as a limited fingerboard compared to standard tuning, I am now able to see the bigger picture better.

Basically all you need is 3 notes (tones 1,3,5 from the major scale) to make a major chord. This works in any key.

See this chart: http://www.cigarboxnation.com/photo/13-keys?context=user

Example: ADf# (low to high) on a CBG is tones 513 for the key of D (D major chord)

In the new series (3 string CBG Part 2) I go from GDG tuning (CD4) to ADf# tuning.

GDG (151 tuning) is great for walking bass lines, blues shuffle rhythms, and alternating strings 3 and 2 while playing a melody line on string 1 with your bottleneck. Real old school blues playing. You can get a lot of milage out of understanding this tuning.

ADf# offers a system of movable chords. Great for playing a CBG like a standard 6. I think if you view the lessons as I post them, it will clearify this approach. Very different then GDG tuning. ADf# is great secret tuning!

Again, I am not inventing anything new. Just applying what is normally done on a 6 string in open tuning only in miniature. Bare bone essentials. This is what makes CBG have that primative sound that we all love.

Furthermore, you can stack those three tones low to high in any order using different string gauges and get another system of movable chords. Various approaches! No limitations. More Secret tunings! LOL 

ADf# (513)...f#ad(351)...Df#d(135)...etc.

I decided to focus on this tuning (ADf#) because it can be utilized on a standard tuned 6 string guitar E(ADG)BE. The G is tuned down to f#. The rest of open D tuning is D(ADf#)ad. No need to restring.    

I'm sorry, but I can go on and on...LOL...GEEK!!!

Remember I spent many years exploring open tunings on 6 string. So when I play a CBG in the key of G on a 3 string, I see this part: D(GDg)bd of the whole 6 string.

When I play CBG in open G on 4 string, I see this part: DG(Dgbd)

Ultimately, for me it does not matter how many strings are on the instrument or the key it is tuned in, as long as I see the open tuned pattern of tuning on the fingerboard. If you learn CBG in miniature standard open tunings (DAD, Df#ad, GDG, Dgbd, ADf#, etc.) it is an easy step to 6 string resonator guitar or even 5 string banjo (GDgbd)! 

This is how theory has been so helpful to me. As I tell people, sometimes a good face to face music teacher is the best thig if you really want to learn. This is how I learned. Then all those video lessons and books you buy will make a whole lot more sense.  

I hope I did not further confuse things for everyone, but I love this stuff. Thanks for pitching that question to me Mark. Happy Holidays. Enjoy

 

         

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by BenBob on December 16, 2010 at 8:36pm

Investing in the study of theory may seem dry and laborious, but it pays dividends on any instrument you pick up. Check out my video and tab of "Parade of the Wooden Soldiers." The happy G-tuning/C-key realization helped to squeeze it onto 3 strings, but I think Keni will testify that knowing what is happening theoretically when the score just doesn't play is what makes the many cool arrangements he does in his videos possible.

 

But for those who are in this thread for simple tunes, here's another great 3-chord song: Bobby McGee! If you can't sing like Joplin (ahem!), listen to Kenny Rodgers' version, it's doable ;-) 0,5,7 in DAD, or 7,0,2 in GDG

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on December 17, 2010 at 3:33am

Definitely. Additionally, when learning a very simple arrangement off a tab, students should just ask themself some simple questions like, what notes are these?, why do they work well together?, is there a connection between the single notes and the chords? Without even knowing it, you are exploring theory. In time, the bigger picture will be realized. I haven't heard your performance version yet. Arranging in other keys than the open tuning key is always interesting to me. My knee jerk reaction is always to arrange to the 5th. (Ex. Tuning key of G, song arranged in D) You already sparked my interest by arranging in the 4th, C. Thanks for sharing.    

BenBob said:

Investing in the study of theory may seem dry and laborious, but it pays dividends on any instrument you pick up. Check out my video and tab of "Parade of the Wooden Soldiers." The happy G-tuning/C-key realization helped to squeeze it onto 3 strings, but I think Keni will testify that knowing what is happening theoretically when the score just doesn't play is what makes the many cool arrangements he does in his videos possible.

 

But for those who are in this thread for simple tunes, here's another great 3-chord song: Bobby McGee! If you can't sing like Joplin (ahem!), listen to Kenny Rodgers' version, it's doable ;-) 0,5,7 in DAD, or 7,0,2 in GDG

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Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on December 17, 2010 at 7:29am

Thanks guys, keep this thread going. have to agree with Mark, some times reading this is like reading my nieces e mails were have the sentences are groups of letters, takes forever to figure out what she is saying, lol. I do get it though Kenni and Ben, Thanks for the help and inspiration to us of lesser talent.  As my past guitar instructor used to say, anyone can play a guitar, you just have to practice.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Reaney on December 19, 2010 at 8:40am

I'm pretty new to playing as CBG as well. Maybe we need a fret-based tablature for these simple songs.  Does such a thing exist?  I'll give it a shot. each bar \~~~~\ equals four beats.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Reaney on December 19, 2010 at 11:11am

Of course "Stormy Monday was written by T-Bone Walker, not Lightning Hopkins.  That's what I get for getting lyrics off the web without checking them over.

Mark Reaney said:

I'm pretty new to playing as CBG as well. Maybe we need a fret-based tablature for these simple songs.  Does such a thing exist?  I'll give it a shot. Each bar \~~~~\ equals four beats.

 

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Permalink Reply by Michael Glenn on May 2, 2011 at 6:39pm

Not a bad way to go.  Makes it easy for everyone to read and understand.  I'm leaning more towards a simple [I],[IV],[V] notation for the chords, so you'd read:

 

[I]

They called it stormy Monday,but Tuesday is just as bad,

 

[IV]                                                                        [I]   

Oh, they called it, they called it stormy Monday, but Tuesday....

 

Something like that.  Then we just need some simple chord diagrams that show you how to form the I, IV and V in open or standard tuning, and any one of us could pick up any instrument and play along.  Simple, yes?

 

Mark Reaney said:

I'm pretty new to playing as CBG as well. Maybe we need a fret-based tablature for these simple songs.  Does such a thing exist?  I'll give it a shot. each bar \~~~~\ equals four beats.

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on May 3, 2011 at 1:01am

Stormy Monday cover:

 

http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/ive-been-sick-all-week

 

I teach this arrangement and the movable chord system on my instructional CD 5 (How to Play 4 string CBG).

 

It is available for sale here: http://shop.ebay.com/njmikeb/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&a...

 

Please feel free to write if you have any questions. Enjoy your practice, Keni Lee 

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on May 3, 2011 at 5:33am

It seems this discussion about music theory and / or learning technique keeps coming up.

In general, you don't have to study and understand to do anything.

You don't need to go to cooking school to cook.

You don't need to go to automotive school to work on cars.

And you certainly don't need to study music to play a CBG either.

Although, the old Blues masters for example did not learn in a vacuum. They were fortunate to have good mentors that sat directly in front of them and taught them directly. Like learning a trade. Gaining skill through experience over a long period of time. By playing with other musicians they learned even more. Ever though, maybe they may have not been able to express themselves in traditional musical language, they knew what they were doing. A quick listen to Robert Johnson can clearify this. He learned from Ike Zimmerman. Listen to Big Bill Broonzy and Lonnie Johnson. It quite clear they knew a thing or two. Anyway, Blues is only applied basic music theory. Nothing complex like Jazz and Classical.

Personally, I have found working and learning with teachers to be very rewarding.

I think I have clearly demonstrated by countless videos, there certainly is a method to make exploring the guitar beneficial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2HjuNpOOek&feature=channel_vide...

Additional, playing better has increased my enjoyment of playing too.

Many times students get frustrated (me included) and feel they hit a wall. Continuous education (getting knowledge from an ouside source) improves this situation.  

Learning can be fun and interesting too.

Thank you for your consideration. Enjoy.

    

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on May 3, 2011 at 6:20am

Cant disagree with a word Keni, practice and an education in theory are key to learning beyond the basics. And even the basics require at least some basic theory and terminology for the purposes of communicating.

BUT.... that said, I believe the reason it keeps coming up is that sometimes people need a more basic place to start.

Show a song, one known well enough to hear in your head. Keep it beginner level, no fills, turnarounds, nothing. Let people practice it until I they are ready to cross the bridge to saucing it up a little. Step by step, add little peices, and as you do, explain the hows and whys.

If I can hear the song as you step through it, see what your finger positions and movements are, and you dont wow me with any advanced stuff too soon, I will pick it up. But for some reason, even though I largely learn and play by ear, it takes me longer to figure it out by listening only, and worse, I usually learn it "wrong".

I like your lessons Keni, a lot. But the overwhelming reaction here leads me to believe there is a gaping hole waiting for someone to fill it.

I have purchased many lesson dvd's by the way. Found more than half to be a waste of time and money. The sound and video production or duplication process seems to get worse the harder people try to make it look "professional". The teachers instruction can be halting and distracted. The players fingers are often obscurred and the teaching just generally is lacking.

Just some thoughts.....

Mark

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