Changed Tuning From DADF# to GDAE - Now Strings Bend Notes and Change Pitch

So I bought a 4 string CBG and it was tuned DADF#. It played beautifully. I could play chords, mostly up on the first four frets and press the strings normally and the pitch was perfect. Then I changed the tuning to GDAE, using the following strings: .042, .034, .018, .016. Now the strings bend very easily if fretted too hard or in the center of the fret instead of closer to the fret wire. Obviously I notice this more on the A and E strings.

I brought it to a guitar shop and the guy said the nut should be filed down more to bring the action down. Why would it work fine in the first tuning but not the second? I actually noticed the same problem with my other CBG and changing to DADF# solved it.

Seems higher string tension solves it, but I was really hoping to tune this 22" scale CBG like an octave mandolin, GDAE one octave down from a mandolin. Any suggestions? Would different strings make a difference?

Thanks,

BB

Views: 884

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Can you find out what gauge the original strings were? If they were heavy-ish for that tuning, then going heavy for your current tuning might work. You can use this little string gauge calculator thingy for each string and see what is "optimal" gauge, and go up (or down!) from there.

http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.htm
The gauges listed above also changed the pitch on CBG #1 - that's why I changed it to DADF#, which seems to have high enough string tension to reduce string bending/pitch change. CBG #1 is fine with this tuning.


So, DADF# worked fine on CBG #2 (photo below) - the 22" scale CBG - good action, good pitch. Changing to GDAE, one octave down from a mando, with the above string gauges, makes the strings bend and change pitch. In trying to isolate the variables between the tunings, I have been told:

- the nut needs to be filed down to lower the action
- heavier strings may help increase tension.

I am inclined to try the first since a half-hour of a luthier's time may cost $40 and I have no files - and strings are relatively cheap.

I'm clueless and am so close to getting CBG #2 right! Can you help me sort through this?

Thanks!

I use the 4 small strings from an acoustic 6 string set, usually mediums, but lights are fine too. I do this on a 24 inch scale. I think it would work on a 22 inch.
Uncle John - What tuning do you use for these strings?
I use open G tuning: DGBD. Same as banjo tuning, so you can easily look up free banjo chords. So easy to play in the key of G, which fits my voice and probably more voices than any other key. G chord is open (strum) C chord is 2 or 3 fingers and the D chord is 2 fingers. Plus, you can still play slide. All my videos with 4 string CBGs are in open G. Check them out and see if you like the tone and if it fits your voice. I play most of what I do with the G, C, D, and Em chords. Em is less often used, but pretty and just 2 fingers.
The Longer the scale, the heavier the strings, the lower the action..... the more likely the instrument will stay in tune when you fret a note.
The shorter the scale, the lighter the strings , the higher the action.... the more likely the instrument will go out of tune when you fret a note.
Most guitar makers use a scale length between 24.5 & 25.5 inches.
If you use medium gauge guitar strings with this scale length you will have success. Its just a matter of positioning your saddle so that your intonation is correct.
With a short scale like 22 inches , use heavy gauge strings, a low action & move your saddle for correct intonation.
So you think it is ok to up the string gauges on all the strings? The guy that built it counseled against filing the nut any more because it may create fret buzzing - it is definitely lower the further you go from the nut. Am I correct that the only issue with heavier gauge is the tension on the neck? Will I still be able to tune it to GDAE easily?

Thanks for helping!
Crap, Barry. The string to fret board distance should slightly INCREASE as you move up the neck and toward the body... Sounds like yours does the opposite. Crap (again).

It sounds like the tuning that it had when it came from the builder worked well. Do you have good reason to change it???

Higher string tension from bigger strings, MIGHT bow the neck some and increase the distance between fret board and string. I have built around 20 CBGs and yet I am no expert to advise you. There are few real experts out there..... But I will not BS you either. Go back to the first tuning or be prepared to raise or lower the saddle. From what you described and what the builder said, "Do not file the nut."

CBGs are mostly unperfected and require some messing with here and there. This is why I am sometimes reluctant to sell mine. Unless built extra stout and working good, they are very likely to need work at some time. That is the truth as I see it. And the truth can be a frustrating SOB. With patience and a minimal work shop, most problems can be overcome. Good luck to you.

Uncle John

GBarry Lampke said:
So you think it is ok to up the string gauges on all the strings? The guy that built it counseled against filing the nut any more because it may create fret buzzing - it is definitely lower the further you go from the nut. Am I correct that the only issue with heavier gauge is the tension on the neck? Will I still be able to tune it to GDAE easily?

Thanks for helping!

Hello! I am a violin player, this gdae tuning would be great for melody, but I do not know if the chords are easy and comfortable to play.
I am about to acquire a 4 strings and I have to decide the tuning of the strings .... gdgb or maybe it would be better this gdae?
I have a 3 string gdg
Thank you very much!

Jose,
I see you have asked this same question in numerous discussions. Let me ask you one. As a violin player who is used to GDAE, do you play chords on a violin much?

Most violin players use double stops, and more rarely, triple stops, but as you note above, the violin is primarily a melody or solo lead instrument. As it happens, mandolins are often tuned GDAE, but also have a fairly short scale length, typically 14-16", and use doubled light strings under fairly high tension. . A standard 4-string CBG will have a scale length of 24-25.5", and will often use medium strings. One possibility is to have one of the builders here at CBN build you a 22" scale octave mandolin, tuned GDAE, but with medium strings.

You're right, forgive me :). I just wanted to make sure. True, few chords are played on hahahaha violin. And if you play them .... you go wrong :).
Definitely gdgb tuning will be the most recommended. I only want chords, and have more chords more to play than 3 strings, so .... I should definitely go, right?
Thank you for your holy patience!

I used to play violin way back in public school, and I've recently gotten a cheap mandolin to start learning on, since violin to mandolin is a very easy transition, they are both tuned GDAE, its easy to pick out the same melody line on both, but learning mandolin chords takes a little more work.

So Barry, I'm guessing you are after a tenor mandolin, tuned one octave below the more common soprano (13 in) mandolin. the chord charts are the same so finding online resources should be easy. You need a light tension string set to avoid extra stress bowing the neck, and use the #5 (A) tuned down to G, #4 (D) tuned to D, #2 (B) tuned down to A, and the #1 (E) tuned to E.

Because guitars are tuned in 4ths and mandolins are tuned in 5ths, you are covering a broader range of notes in 4 strings, which is why you use #5 and #4 as your lower strings.

RSS

The Essential Pages

New to Cigar Box Nation? How to Play Cigar Box GuitarsFree Plans & How to Build Cigar Box GuitarsCigar Box Guitar Building Basics

Site Sponsor

Recommended Links & Resources


Forum

crossover guitar.

Started by Timothy Hunter in Other stuff - off topic, fun stuff, whatever. Last reply by Timothy Hunter Mar 21. 11 Replies

Tune up songs

Started by Ghostbuttons in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Timothy Hunter Mar 9. 5 Replies

Duel output jacks

Started by Justin Stanchfield in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Taffy Evans Mar 8. 6 Replies

How to Get Your Own Music on Spotify

Started by Cigar Box Nation in Feature Articles. Last reply by Southern Ray Feb 21. 2 Replies

CB Bass Guitar

Started by Mi Rankin in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Justin Stanchfield Jan 27. 5 Replies

Latest Activity

A.D.EKER commented on A.D.EKER's video
Thumbnail

Im Troubled (Tribute) Mc K Morganfield by BCB - A.D .Eker 2024.

"Thank you Poorness ! for loving it ! appreciated!"
14 hours ago
Southern Ray replied to Timothy Hunter's discussion just came accross this pickup idea on youtube.
" Very interesting. Thank you Timothy!"
14 hours ago
Kent Thurston updated their profile
15 hours ago
Southern Ray posted a photo

Punch Project!

She now sports gold metal CBGitty knobs, speaker and an Artec 2.5 watt speaker. Finished this in…
15 hours ago
Southern Ray posted a photo

Project Punch!

Gonna finally get back on this long-delayed project that is more than half complete. (The matching…
16 hours ago
Poorness Studios liked A.D.EKER's video
18 hours ago
BrianQ. left a comment for Rob (Uker) Porras
"Hope this helps?"
18 hours ago
Doug Thorsvik commented on Doug Thorsvik's photo
Thumbnail

Dueling Flatheads

"I appreciate the kind words Papa D! I have always loved the look of these cigar boxes. Glad to have…"
20 hours ago
A.D.EKER commented on A.D.EKER's video
yesterday
A.D.EKER posted a video

Im Troubled (Tribute) Mc K Morganfield by BCB - A.D .Eker 2024.

The recorded History By Alan Lomax for the library of Congres of the Blues, from Mc Kinley Morganfield (Aka Muddy Waters) the in this take recorded Tribute ...
yesterday
Papa D commented on Doug Thorsvik's photo
Thumbnail

Dueling Flatheads

"Beautiful..Nice work Doug.."
yesterday
Papa D commented on Papa D's photo
Thumbnail

american1 Sun Glo

"Thanx AGP & Doug..  4 more coming soon"
yesterday

Music

© 2024   Created by Ben "C. B. Gitty" Baker.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service

\uastyle>\ud/** Scrollup **/\ud.scrollup {\ud background: url("https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/963882636?profile=original") no-repeat scroll 0 0 transparent;\ud bottom: 25px;\ud display: inline !important;\ud height: 40px;\ud opacity: 0.3 !important;\ud position: fixed;\ud right: 30px;\ud text-indent: -9999px;\ud width: 40px;\ud z-index: 999;\ud}\ud.scrollup:hover {\ud opacity:0.99!important;\ud}\ud \uascript type="text/javascript">\ud x$(document).ready(function(){\ud x$(window).scroll(function(){\ud if (x$(this).scrollTop() > 100) {\ud x$('.scrollup').fadeIn();\ud } else {\ud x$('.scrollup').fadeOut();\ud }\ud });\ud x$('.scrollup').click(function(){\ud x$("html, body").animate({ scrollTop: 0 }, 600);\ud return false;\ud });\ud });\ud \ua!-- End Scroll Up -->