I have been thinking of making a mountain dulcimer. My first idea was to do a long rectangular box or a long trapezoidal box, with the box tapering inward toward the headstock. But, with my experience with dry bending wood from my paddle box stick dulcimer build, I think I can do a elliptical shaped sound box without that much trouble. Here are a few diagrams illustrating what I was thinking:
Here are some of the specifications I will be shooting for: [Revised May 12, 2011]
- Instrument Length: 37"
- Sound Box Length: 32"
- Sound Box Width: 6"
- Sound Box Depth: 3"
- Scale Length: 28"
- Fingerboard Width: 1.25"
- Fingerboard Height: 0.75"
- Number of Strings: 4 (paired melody strings)
- Tuning Machines: 4 individual open geared tuners
- Number of frets: 16 (with 6½ and 13½ "optional" frets)
- Fret Material: real fret wire
- Side wood: Cherry trim wood
- Headstock & neck (finger board): Cherry trim wood
- Sound & Back Boards: ?? Likely 2mm ply veneer
String Gauges for Mountain Dulcimers
Here is some information on string sizes to use for a Mountain Dulcimer. You can buy mountain dulcimer string sets, but I think I'll start with guitar strings of suitable gauge:
Four-String with Double-Melody (Tuning: D-A-AA or D-A-dd)- Melody String #1: 0.010 to 0.012 plain steel
- Melody String #2: 0.010 to 0.012 plain steel
- Middle String: 0.012 to 0.014 plain steel
- Bass String: 0.022 bronze-wound (or similar wound)
The following is a slideshow showing the progress of my MD project...
-Rand.
Tags: Appalachian Dulcimer, Galax Dulcimer, Mountain Dulcimer
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on
- Delete
Oh, I forgot to mention that the C.B.Gitty website has a good article on Cigar Box Mountain Dulcimers written by "Diane in Chicago" (another prolific CBN member). As you may know, CBMDs are made by joining together two (or more) cigar boxes to form the long sound box of the mountain dulcimer. It's worth a look. Here's the link.
-Rand
-
- Delete
In reviewing the content of Diane's article on CBMDs, I see some details from her work that I really like.
These include:
- The raised fingerboard that only periodically comes into contact with the soundboard (see photo 4)
- The simple sound holes made by grouping together different sized drill holes (see photo 4)
- The tail piece (see photo 6)
Again, here's the link.
Also, in photo 6, look how the pair of melody strings are on top, and the bass string is on bottom. This is the opposite of how strings are placed on a stick dulcimer, guitar, banjo, etc. This facilitates the use of a "noter" to fret the melody strings while the 2 remaining strings are left un-fretted (they drone when the instrument is strummed with the other hand). Again, this instrument is played sitting down, either at a table, or with the instrument in your lap.
-
Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on
- Delete
You dont have to play with the noter, its one of many styles of play, often looked at as a regional style, but some see it as a "beginner" style. You can use your finger to play the double string style, often basic chords are incorperated with that style as ones playing advances.
I have studied the instrument a bit, and would compare the multiple box cigar box instrument in some ways to a "Galax" style mountain dulcimer. (Another regional variant) Its drawback for some would be ergonomics, as some people have trouble with them sliding out of a good playing position.
For me, it works best with the tuner end further away than the strumming end, and even a conventional teardrop or hourglass shape can be a little tricky to keep from wanting to slide away as you play. It can be hard to form a "flat" lap for some of us I suppose. I have seen straps configured to help hold them in position.
People play in other positions, another thing that seems to historically vary by region. I have seen it played with the neck resting up toward the shoulder of the player, which I find very unusual, and I have seen it strapped and played more like a conventional guitar, sometimes even reconfigured with the strings set up opposite of convention.
Then theres the "courting" ducimer, which in a way cures many of these problems, (while potentially creating a whole new set of their own!)
Bottom line Rand, If I were you, and wanted to build one with sound quality being a high priority. Of the choices you suggest I would build the tear drop shape and use the best tone woods I could aquire. By the way, plans are pretty readily available for those if you desire.
-
- Delete
Hi Mark.
I've seen a guy play one with a strap to his thigh. I have also heard of people playing them with "possum boards", which is a kind of "lap board" that the mountain dulcimer sits on, and the advantage being that your body does not muffle the back side of the dulcimer so much. So, I'm sure I'll have to try these things as well. I will try the tear drop (or roughly oval shape) and try to find a better material for the sound board & back board. I think the cherry trim wood I use for the sides will work fine.
My first step will be to build a mountain dulcimer jig so I can do a good job of bending wood symmetrically. I have a couple of photos of such jigs that I found on the Internet, and I have drawn this plan for mine:
So, on a suitably sized board (maybe 40"x 10" x 1/2"), I'll draw out where I want my head block and tail block located, and then the curvature of the sides, which I'll control by nailing or screwing on cut dowels (or blocks of wood). These are indicated on the drawing by the little circles along the side boards. After dry fitting the parts, I'll glue them up and clamp them down. After dry, I can remove the assembly from the jig and use it as a template to draw the shape of my sound board and back board. Once they are cut and shaped to fit, I'll glue them on one at a time. Once dried, I should have my box. Then the rest of the design will be similar to any CBG project. But, I still thinking of a scalloped out fingerboard that stands off a bit from the sound board to let it vibrate more freely. I'm sure the are parts of the project that I still haven't wrapped by mind around, but when I get there I'm pretty confident about finding a solution, and can always ask around on CBN for suggestions.
-Rand.
-
- Delete
Mine has walnut sides, head, endblock and fingerboard, with spruce top and back. Nice sound.
With the thin spruce top and back, it needs some minor cross bracing internally. And you may want to build your jig so it can hold the sides in place while you glue on either the back or top, but then you need to develop some method of clamping.
You mentioned once before on another project, difficulty getting a precise fit when cutting tops (or bottoms) for boxes.
Tip: It is common luthier practice to leave a little overhang and glue them into place, then trim flush after the glue dries. (either by hand with chisel and scraper, or by flush trim router.)
Have fun with the project Rand, and most important, play that sucker!
-
- Delete
Hi Mark,
Maybe you can post a (or some) photo(s) of the mountain dulcimer you built. I would especially be interested in any photos showing how you built it, and maybe the jig you used. I have seen a few different tail block (end block) and head block designs. What design did you use? After I'm done with my jig (working on it now), I'll need to build a tail block and head block so I can bend the sides around and secure it (glue it) to form the framework of the sound box. I was thinking it might be easier to make separating the actual head/neck from the "head block" that completes the sound box frame. I can then use dowels and glue to attach the read headstock to the head block once my sound box is complete.
To glue on the soundboard, I was thinking of making my own kerffing (sp?) but will need 112" worth, so that might take some time to do with hand tools. I was also thinking of making my own roller clamps which I have seen a number of different people use and the instructions for making them are quite clear. Just have to see if I can find all the parts I need. Otherwise I'll buy some more clamps which I get for about $4.00 each (fairly cheap). Here's a photo of someone using roller clamps to glue a fretboard onto a guitar neck.
On my paddle box stick dulcimer, I had a problem with a precise cut because the back board had to be inlaid as opposed to sit on top of the sides. Part of the problem was how to cut the 2mm ply veneer, as it splitters quite easily. The building contractor we used to build out our flat gave me a good tip last week: use a utility knife to cut thru the 2mm ply. It works a lot better (easy and provides a cleaner cut). It does require 2 or 3 passes of the knife before it cuts all the way through, but this new technique of cutting the veneer should help me a lot.
If I use kerfing, should I inlay the sound board and back board, or should I let them sit on top the sides and file and sand the excess down to size. If the latter is the case, then the kerfing needs to be level with the top edge of the sides. If the sound board is inlaid, then the kerfing will have to drop down about 2mm so the soundboard will be level with the sides. Decisions, decisions!
By the way, I could not access you personal page on CBN to check out your photos.
Well, thank you for letting me bounce some ideas off you (and for getting me to start thinking about some new issues).
-Rand.
-
- Delete
Hi All.
Just an update on my mountain dulcimer project. I've got my form/jig built for shaping the sides of the sound box. Here are a couple of photos:
As you can see, I built the jig out of scrap "wood" that I was able to scrounge from the trash at a neighboring hi-rise condo complex. I can't remember the name for this kind of "wood" (maybe MDF?) but it appears to be made of a mix of glue and saw dust. Reconstituted "wood" like McDonald's french fries. Well, so far it seems to be working well enough.
I screwed in six 2.5" tall blocks of wood strategically located so I can bend the wood I'm using for the sides around them. The wood I'm using is the same old cherry trim wood I used for my last 4 or 5 builds, including my square box guitar, my triangle box guitar and my paddle box guitar.
The wood comes in long 2.2 meter lengths and its 3 cm wide by 0.5 cm thick. The walls of my mountain dulcimer sound box will be the same depth as for the other 3 instruments: 6cm (a hair under 2 & 3/8 inches). I glue two 1 meter lengths together side by side using a jig consisting of a wood board work surface lined with two rows of small nails, each nail 3" apart, and the two rows 6 cm apart. I sand the two boards together (side by side) so their mating surface will be good and flat, and then glue the common surface. Once I get the board positioned in the jig I push down on the boards, and then clamp another 1 meter by 2.25" x 0.5" pine wood board on top of the two boards cherry trim wood boards (forming a butt joint) and clamp these boards down with 8 or 9 clamps. After 3 hours of dry time, I repeat the process for the other side of my mountain dulcimer sound box. Oh, the one thing I forgot to mention is that I use cut plastic grocery bags to keep the gluey work piece from being glued to the work surface and the pin wood board I clamped down on top. The glue doesn't dry within 3 hours if it comes in contact to the plastic bags. So, it works pretty well (don't have to buy wax paper).
Here's another photo of the jig and shaped side boards with some scales strategically located to give you a sens of the size of things.
The scale in the middle of the sound box area is 24" long, and the sound box is 28" long by 6" wide. I was originally planning to have the sound box 7 inches wide, but I found that the cherry trim wood did not want to (dry) bend that far, and I'm not set up for (or experienced with) steaming (or boiling) wood. So, I decided 6" would be wide enough. I also decided against the tear drop shape as the wood was being pretty well taxed. This shape seems to stress the wood the least, so that's the shape I decided to go with. The headstock will go on the left and the tail block on the right.
I have also come up with a preliminary design for the tail block and the head block (part of the headstock that receives the side boards). Here is a photo / diagram of that:
Wll, that's where I am right now. I guess my next step will be to build the tail block and the headstock (concentrating on its head block side). I'd appreciate any suggestions & feedback you folks can give.
-Rand.
-
- Delete
Hi Again...
Here's one more photo showing how I glue up the cherry trim wood to form the sides to my mountain dulcimer.
The first side has just been glued up and clamped down. The green plastic is the cut-up plastic grocery bag. There are two layers of plastic, one below the two lengths of cherry trim wood being glued together, and the other layer on top (so the pine wood board that is being clamped on top doesn't get stuck on by any glue that oozes out from the crack between the two lengths of cherry trim wood). In the background, you can also see two more lengths of cherry trim wood which will become the other side of my mountain dulcimer's sound box. Just trying to clarify what I was saying in words on my previous post.
-Rand.
-
- Delete
Hi All,
Over the long weekend, as I was trying to figure out how to combine the head block and the headstock into one part, I heard a cracking sound behind me and I turned around and found that one of the two side boards had cracked in two places. Not completely through, but enough so that I have rejected the piece and plan to make a new side board today. I'm hoping that this is the side board that I used to test fit the side boards for a 7 inch wide sound box. At that time it started making a cracking sound and because of that, I decided I'd have to make my sound box an inch narrower. Again, I'm dry bending the side boards, not steaming, boiling or soaking them. If the new side also cracks, then I'll have to reconsider these options.
I have been working with MS Paint to draw the tail block, the head block and the headstock. I have a design that fits the headstock and the head block together, which I'll build as a sub-assembly before attaching the head and tail blocks to the side board. I have also been thinking of how the fingerboard will be attached. On fancier mountain dulcimers, they talk about a "scalloped relief" where instead of having the fingerboard attach to the soundboard for the entire length of the sound board, they make it like a bridge with 3 or 4 "spans" where the fingerboard does not contact the sound board, so that the sound board is more free to vibrate.
I drew a picture illustrating how the parts will go together:
Here you can see the "relief" in the fingerboard which makes it look a bit like a bridge spanning the length of the sound board. You can also see the headstock and the head block, plus a little piece I call the "fudge piece" which I haven't figured out to do. Likely I will cut it out separately and glue it on after I attach the headstock to the head block. I'm also thinking about using a couple dowels to stiffen the headstock/head block and the headstock to the fingerboard (neck). What I forgot to show was the tail block. Also, details like tuner locations, tail piece and strings are missing. I'll address those issues as the build progresses.
One question I have is how "tall" is the fingerboard? It looks about 3 or 4 times thicker than my typical fretboard, so I'm thinking at least 2 cm (approx 0.75"). A mountain dulcimer measured in metric, how authentic is that? Not!
Well, all the wood I can get in China is measured in metric, and I'm not going to plane it all down to measure right in feet and inches for the sake of authentic-ness.
Well, any feedback is welcome.
-Rand.
-
- Delete
Oh, I forgot. Here is a photo of my cracked side board.
As my side boards are constructed by gluing to smaller boards together using a long butt joint on the thinnest side, when the board was bent, it failed in two places, both places around the area of the widest part of what would be the sound box.
Now to cut two more 1 meter lengths, sand the two common sides flat, and then glue them up, as I did these 2 boards:
I should do a photo collage showing the steps I take to glue 2 boards together like this. I do it a lot when building sound boxes. Maybe next time.
-Rand.
-
- Delete
- Pardon Me.
-
- Delete
Hi All.
I've been doing some research on the website "Everything Dulcimer" and they have a builders forum called "Making Dulcimers" with some 137 pages of discussions. So, it looks like I might have hit the jackpot in regards to finding information on building mountain dulcimers. They also have a section called "The Tennessee Music Box Project" which describes how to make a really simple rectangular shaped mountain dulcimer. You may need to be a member to access this information, as I did. It's not much different than joining Cigar Box Nation. Anyways, I have been able to get some answers to questions that have been bothering me. Here are those:
1.) What should the fingerboard / fretboard height be on a mountain dulcimer (M.D.)?
Fretboard height on a mountain dulcimer can vary from about 1/2 to 1 inch high, with 3/4 inch being a good "average". Much shorter than 3/4" makes playing with a noter difficult. Some people also think that a height much above 3/4" looks bad. So, I'm planning on 2 cm, which is a hair over 3/4". That will be four 30" lengths of the cherry trim wood I've been using. I'll be stacking the 4 board horizontally instead of vertically (vertically is how I did the necks on my last few stick dulcimers). M.D. builders also recommend that I glue the fretboard to the sound board before I glue the sound board to the rest of the sound box as it will allow you to clamp everything down to a hard surface when gluing it. If you glue the fretboard on after the sound board is glued to the rest of the sound box, it makes clamping down much more difficult, especially if your using a thin sound board. The soundboard may crack when you try to clamp the fretboard on tightly.
2.) What kind of bracing is used on mountain dulcimers (M.D.)?
Most professionally made M.D. soundboards and back boards are made by gluing together 2 halves (book matched), so many people run a main brace down the length of the soundboard, right in the middle where they join. Then they run shorter braces at right angles to this main brace. Usually 5 or 6 such braces spaced out equally along the main brace. But, some builders use a thicker sound board and don't even bother with braces. Both ways yield get good results. With 2mm ply / veneer sound board, maybe I'll use braces. I haven't decided yet.
3.) What are the assembly steps in building a mountain dulcimer (M.D.)?
One builder suggests the following steps:
- Make the back, sides and top
- Make the head and tail blocks, tuning head and fretboard with frets
- Attach sides to the head & tail blocks
- Attach tuning head to the "frame"
- Attach frame to back to make the "carcass".
- Attach fretboard to top.
- Attach top to the carcass.
- Attach nut, bridge and hardware
- Finish
- String, adjust action, and play.
There you have it in 10 easy steps!
I usually make the frame first, beginning with the sides, then the head and tail stocks. When I have that all glued and dried, I can use it as a template to draw the shape of my top and bottom (sound board and back board). Once I have rough cut the sound board and back board, I glue on the back board and add any kerfing or bracing I think I'll need. Then build the fingerboard / fretboard. Glue the fingerboard to the sound board and then glue the sound board to the rest of the "carcass". Then trim the sides of both the fretboard and sound board, assemble the headstock (maybe use dowels to strengthen that joint) and once all has dried, sand, sand and sand, finish with several coats of polyurethane and then add the tuners, nut, bridge tail piece and finally, string it up. The tune & play.So, now I need to get to building the head and tail blocks.
-Rand.
Replies
I had a post in another part of CBN which relates well with the material in this discussion, so I am copying ii here...
So, yesterday, I uploaded a series of 8 photos of my second "mountain dulcimer" build that I did back in May of 2012. Those photos were among several series of guitar build photos that were still on the camera after all these months. Here's what the instrument looks like:
-Rand.
Can't wait to see that thread started. I have some ideals going in my head.
Hi Phil.
I think I will start another discussion under this discussion group about bending wood, making steamers and forms/jigs to force and hold the curve while the wood dries. I will do some on-line research and some experimentation and publish my results there. Other CBG members will be welcome to comment, describe their experiences, etc. I have come across a free booklet on wood bending which I've started to read and decided I should let you know about. Here's the link...
Veritas® Steam-Bending Instruction Booklet. It looks like a good place to start.
P.S. I also have these two links on the topic: How to bend wood to form rounded sound boxes?
Check out these two web pages set up by Jim Varnum: "Travel Guitar"and "Appalachian Mountain Fiddle". Both articles describe in fair detail the process of bending wood by soaking them in near boiling water for 30 to 45 minutes.
-Rand
Phil Chestnut said:
I am at a point in the build where things look like I am almost finished but still have a ways to go. I just have to try and keep my mind on what I am doing and not let myself get ahead of what needs to be done. I reall would like to find something on bending wood to read. I have seen professional bending heaters, I have an ideal How I can build something close it's just a matter of how I am how or what I am going to use to give it heat. But That I deals a ways off until I am done with this build anyways. But after seeing that Box dulcimer in the Pic. Has given me some Ideals.
So much to build so little time to build it all.
Hi Phil Chestnut,
Good luck on your mountain dulcimer (MD) project. A simple rectangular sound-box is a good way for a beginner to go as it lets you focus on other design issues that are more important than the shape in producing a good sounding instrument. Take your time with the planning stage and draw out the plans, as problems are easier to solve on paper than they are after implemented in wood.
I was just looking at this photo of an odd, but nicely shaped, soundbox on a MD built by CBG member zipo husband. It's the instrument standing at the bottom of the photo. It might give you some design ideas beyond a simple rectangular soundbox.
I should do another MD build, maybe steaming or near-boiling the wood in order to bend it into an hourglass or teardrop shape. I'll need to look more into the subject and see what I can do from locally available resources. Will need some sort of steaming / boiling apparatus as well as some form (mold) with which to shape the wood while it cools. I will probably start bending wood on a simpler shaped instrument, a round teardrop sound-box for a stick dulcimer, sine that sound box will be half as deep and less thick as compared a MD sound-box. My first MD was made with sides glued up from 2 or 3 pieces of trim-wood. I'm thinking this glue joint will fail if I go to steam or soak the sides before I bend them, so likely a 5 or 6 cm wide board will be thicker, and thus more difficult to bend.
Anyway, good luck with your project. Let us know how it turns out.
-Rand.
Hi Rand You have a lot of information here It's going to take me a little time to get through it all I am working on my first Dulcimer, It's a box dulcimer. But I would like to try making a teardrop next.
Hi All,
In playing my mountain dulcimer (MD) this past week, I have noticed that the drone strings sound better on a MD as compared to a stick dulcimer (SD). I think the reason has to do with string placement as they are opposite of each other. In the MD, the melody string is closest to you and then when you strum, you hit the melody string first followed by the middle and the bass strings. The melody string is thus played first, followed by the middle and bass drone strings. The result is a clearer sounding melody and a sweeter sounding drone. With the SD, the melody string is the furthest one from you, and so the bass string is struck first, followed by the middle string and finally the melody string when you strum a down stroke. This makes the drone sound a bit louder than the melody string, making the melody all the harder to hear. In addition, the drone strings are reversed and it doesn't sound as good as compared to my MD.
So, I was thinking of making a stick dulcimer with the string placement the same as the MD, but put a little extra space between the middle and melody strings, so I can finger the melody with my fat fingers reaching over the drone strings. I want to see if that makes the drone sound sweeter and the melody sound louder.
Has anyone tried this? Or noticed this before?
I have tried to correct the drowned out melody strings in the past by doubling the melody strings, and later doubling the middle strings as well. But I don't thinks this gets at the root of the problem which I now feel is due to sting placement.
The alternative is to develop a dominant up-stroke playing style when playing a SD, which may be difficult to do.
Any thoughts?
-Rand.
Here are a couple photos of my "finished" mountain dulcimer. I'm sure there will be some additional modifications to it as time goes on, but for now at least, it's finished and (best of all) playable!
Here's the left side view, tilted up slightly to show off the "scalloping" of the fingerboard. As you can see, I got sloppy with the four sound holes and they don't line up right. I also kept them rather small, thinking I could always enlarge them later.
Well, that's all for now.
-Rand.
This is a test post. Please disregard.
-Rand.
----
The test worked, but the placement of the newest post is at the top of the list, not at the end of the list as it was before.